TLicense Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 As most of you are probably aware, I've just bought and had fitted by Leon, the AEM ecu. Now I've got a slight "flat spot" in the map around 1000 rpm, most noticeable if you quickly blip the throttle from idle. I've had a bit of a play with the ems, trying to follow the online instructions, but to be honest I'm struggling like hell to work out what I'm supposed to be doing. Basically I don't know what to adjust or in which direction to sort the problem out. Can anyone throw a few pointers in the general direction I want to be heading, or maybe better point my somewhere where I can learn what the hell I'm supposed to be doing. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyefi Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 the aem manual is good, or the website has a good forum. finding really good info on ems programing is very hard, but these two r good places to start. dont forget things can get seriously fucked up by messing with one of these, i'd recomend taking it somewhere. cant leon just give it a tweek? it could b a fueling or a timing issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 It may need another load site adding where the flat spot is. AFAIK, Motec do a 1 day basic mapping course. Think it's about £300. Call them, they are in Banbury. Don't tell them you have an AEM FFS though, just tell them you are thinking of getting a Motec but wanted to look at the system first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by TLicense As most of you are probably aware, I've just bought and had fitted by Leon, the AEM ecu. Now I've got a slight "flat spot" in the map around 1000 rpm, most noticeable if you quickly blip the throttle from idle. I've had a bit of a play with the ems, trying to follow the online instructions, but to be honest I'm struggling like hell to work out what I'm supposed to be doing. Basically I don't know what to adjust or in which direction to sort the problem out. Can anyone throw a few pointers in the general direction I want to be heading, or maybe better point my somewhere where I can learn what the hell I'm supposed to be doing. Many thanks Mapping is not something to learn on an exensive, complex turbo engine. trust me, it will end in tears. Get a pro to map it, if you set it weak, or too far advanced or retarded you'll melt it... You need to pracice on something that you can kill and not loose any sleep over. It's all but impossible to teach someone, you need a LOT of hands on experience. I wouldn't dream of mapping someone elses turbo lump, I'd do my own, or a none turbo race engine, but mapping a turbo ROAD car engine where good low speed drivability and sensible economy, et cetera, are viatl is without doubt the relam of a professional mapper. they don't come cheap, their experience is hard gained, and they are in much demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Hey Tony, That flat spot is prob the idle hole in the map so that it idles a little lean. You are more than welcome to speak with Pat direct, message me if you want his number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 That's what I said. Add a load site where the flat spot is. Wez, Leon left a few messages on Pat's phone but he hasn't returned the calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Hey Terry, I will speak to him later I know he has been really really busy the past couple of weeks. Is Leon still trying to get hold of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Tony, you'll need to do some datalogging to see what the engine is doing at the point where you have the flatspot. Guessing at what to change is likely to make things worse rather than better! Loads of info and advice on the AEM forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Tony when you say flat spot do you mean hesitation on pickup from say about 800 - 1000rpm? Is it nice and smooth if you gently rev it and then hesitant if you stab the throttle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 Yup exactly. If I give it a good go I can actually get it to completely stall. Thing is, if I'm pulling away from a junction, it's just about the right kind of "stab" if you like to get going. It means I've got to rev the balls off it and float it in on the clutch, or pull away as slow as a snail. I've tried adjusting the fuel map and idle tps map. I but I only made v.v. small adjustments and when they didn't work returned them to what they were, as I really don't want to step so boldly into the unknown. I was looking at the accel enrichment map, but it didn't seem to be what I was looking for in the online manual so left it alone. I also copied the map and tried to add a load site half way between 500 and 1000 rpm on the new map, but probably wasn't doing it right, as when I tried to start it, it just stumbled and fell over. I basically copied the rpm sites leaving off the last site, then pasted them over 1 site, and then calculated the site between 500 and the new 1000 rpm sites. I then did a similar thing for the fuel map and the ignition map. Like I said I tried to start the car, but it just idled very badly and stalled so I returned it to the original map. Did I go about this completely wrong I did I miss out something? I think I'll have to whip it back up to Leon's for a morning or so to see if he can tinker with it. I'll probably ask him if he wouldn't mind letting me sit in, so I can get a bit of an understanding of what's doing what. Thanks all for your input, Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 You should be able to richen up the idle to stop this from happening, I have mine setup like this as I wanted a lean idle. If i recall correctly you have a wideband, do you have a wideband display? if so then add some fuel by highlighting the areas and the use the + / - keys to feed it in and out until you have the desired AFR etc. If you are not sure then leave it for Leon, I also recall that the map had alot of timing pulled in this area as we were messing around getting the car to pop and bang on overrun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 TBH Tony, you really need to spend 1/2 a day with a mapper doing a road tune to sort out the glitches. Try Pat that Wez uses, otherwise give me a call and I'll give you another number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Couldn`t agree more Terry, I have spent many hours on the road with Pat and it takes time to get it running how you want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Tony, I just looked at the map Leon sent me. IMHO, you need to add a few more load sites in, It's crazy mapping to 10500 rpm when you'll never go above 7500. To change the RPM load sites, go to setup> main configuration > RPM breakpoints table> then highlight the RPM site and tap in the new figures the hit enter. IMHO I would let the mapper do it but it's up to you. My Autronic software lets me just insert a load site in any table, then the software makes a guesstimate at the values, which can then be trimmed. I couldn't insert a load site on the AEM, but you may well be able to do the same. I would add RPM load sites at 800, 1200, 2750, 3250, 3800 & 4200. This is how my Autronic is setup and it makes for a much smoother drive once mapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 Terry, Cheers for that mate. I think I'm going to give Pat a call, but in the mean time I'll give adding the load sites a try. If I change the RPM load sites, do I then need to shuffle the maps over to the corresponding old sites if you see what I mean? The values at 1000 rpm should always be the values at 1000 rpm, but if I simply add more load sites like that the old values at 1000 rpm will now be at 800 rpm. Is that correct? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Tony I honestly don't know how the AEM software responds. You should be able to change load sites then trim values. TBH I would give Pat you required RPM sites and let him trim the whole map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Hey Guys, I just tried this on the software and the you change the load points but the value associated does not change so yes the whole fuel and ignition mapping would need adjusting. Also if you are using boost and nitrous control the would also need to be adjusted. Depends how much you change the load sites but the ammount of trim shouldn`t be too large hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 That's what I thought Wez, but I find it hard to believe you can't just add a site, without altering the whole map. This would be a big minus for AEM as curing things like a little flat spot becomes a major excercise. I am sure there must be a way of doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted February 11, 2004 Author Share Posted February 11, 2004 As I said earlier, it's possible to just renumber the 1000 rpm breakpoint to say 750 rpm, and then renumber all of the subsequenmt rpm breakpoints, then highlight and cut all the entire map including the column for 1000 rpm but missing off the last rpm breakpoint column, then paste the entire map along 1 column. You can then inerpolate the old 1000 rpm values to a value that's half way between the 500 rpm values and the new 1000 rpm values. That probably doesn't make sense to read but it's not very difficult to do. The only problem I had when I did this is I couldn't get the car to hold an idle at all.There's probably a rpm related map in the idle tables that I missed. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 I can see no reason why that wouldn`t work, but don`t forget you would also have to do the following :- 1. Ignition map 2. Nitrous control (if used) 3. Boost control (if used) When i remap for my single I am going to do a complete rescall with a maximum RPM of approx 7500. I am currently trying to find out from AEM if there is anyway to increase the resolution, if so then it may be possible to insert a new load points and then use the software to mean value the empty spaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Just had a thought but it would prob take an hour or two to complete. Take a screen dump of your current fuel and ignition maps and then copy your current cal file to a new name and edit the load points to what you want. Then with your printed reference ensure you your fueling is as close as possible then you can highlight the the three cells, 2 are already known from previous map and the software should populate the middle cell with the mean value. Fine tuning would be needed but it should get you going. Failing that speak with Pat and he can do a complete remap for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOR Racing Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Just a quick note to offer my services.... We have a chassis dynamometer and have fully mapped cars before. Admittedly not on the AEM but various non-the-less. We have all the equipment to measure correct fueling. Please see http://www.thor-racing.co.uk BIG advert at the top of every screen! Regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 LOL, sorry Pete, didn't forget you. Tony, if the Auto Tune works on the AEM and you have the correct supporting mods, then you could well change the sites and let it auto tune on Pete's set up. This will tune the fuelling to the preselected AFR's. It won't do the ignition, but that should just need trimming. It would be good to get Pete's opinion on the AEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOR Racing Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 I'm also an official agent for Highpower Nitrous Systems. So can map the Nitrous as well. Fitted quite a few now )) I can also re-gas Nitrous. Regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren j adams Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Dont forget pete. You got our AEM to run 769 at the hubs on pump fuel. The car drove like a dream with no flat spots anywhere!! If you recall we drove round your yard at tickover with the feet off the clutch, no throttle in first. At the time we thought Christ ! tickover to flat out . No hesitation! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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