LeeT Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Ok. So, there's no need for 3rd pump then. no need for it for extra power. He just wants it so that he does not have to worry about a pump failing under boost and blowing his engine. thats how ive read and understood it anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 If Running 3 pumps just make sure you get each pump insulated Properly, as thats a lot of magnetic interference in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 OK I imagine Chris has stopped even bothering to read his thread by now. Some of you may consider 3 pumps to be overkill but he'd got a perfectly valid question and a pretty good reason as well (redundancy and safety). So as hilarious as I'm sure these comments are, keep this level of piss taking out of tech. If Chris wants I'll delete the shite out of this thread. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Hm .. I'm just curious as to why Tony isn't using a 3rd. If the 2 pumps run in parallel .. then I can understand the need for a backup. But does that mean you'd really need 4 pumps ? If the pumps run in a serial fashion - then doesn't the 2nd pump as the back up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeT Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 If Running 3 pumps just make sure you get each pump insulated Properly, as thats a lot of magnetic interference in there. i need some of that insulation. do you know where i can get a little bit? enough to wrap one pump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD3000GT Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 no need for it for extra power. He just wants it so that he does not have to worry about a pump failing under boost and blowing his engine. thats how ive read and understood it anyway Thank you for making it clear Im running the Aeromotive -10AN Fuel Pressure Regulator with a 0-100PSI Fuel Pressure Gauge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeT Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 out of curiosity will you be joining the outputs of these pumps into one big -10AN braided fuel line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD3000GT Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 out of curiosity will you be joining the outputs of these pumps into one big -10AN braided fuel line? Yea I was going to run a -10 to the fuel filter and twin -6 to the rail with a -6 / -8 return.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 i need some of that insulation. do you know where i can get a little bit? enough to wrap one pump PHR about $50 + postage IIRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD3000GT Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 i need some of that insulation. do you know where i can get a little bit? enough to wrap one pump This is the cause of APPARENTLY most of the faliures.. But then again they would say that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I think it's a reasonable idea. I think Chris is pushing his car much more than mine, hence I don't think I'm particularly challanging two pumps, but he may be, and three would create a safety buffer. If I had the spare cash floating around then I'd think about doing it. The only thing would be if one fails, how would you know? And then you'd only be running on two anyway, and if one of them fails.... you'd be bloody unlucky! You wouldn't need to re-map the car or anything if one did fail as the regulator should sort out all of that business anyway. I'm a bit confused by all this business of x pump will support x bhp. I think I'd like to see some figures to prove such. Most electrical pumps are lifed, so many hours at such flow rate when under x psi of pressure. Anyone seen any info like this for Walbro's? Just my 2p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD3000GT Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 I think it's a reasonable idea. I think Chris is pushing his car much more than mine, hence I don't think I'm particularly challanging two pumps, but he may be, and three would create a safety buffer. If I had the spare cash floating around then I'd think about doing it. The only thing would be if one fails, how would you know? And then you'd only be running on two anyway, and if one of them fails.... you'd be bloody unlucky! You wouldn't need to re-map the car or anything if one did fail as the regulator should sort out all of that business anyway. I'm a bit confused by all this business of x pump will support x bhp. I think I'd like to see some figures to prove such. Most electrical pumps are lifed, so many hours at such flow rate when under x psi of pressure. Anyone seen any info like this for Walbro's? Just my 2p. Nope Ive not seen this info. I thought the same about the pumps.. Im sure you can just add another one and the regulator should deal with the pressures in there and send back how ever much it needs to via the return Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Setup the 2nd and 3rd pumps only to turn on past, say, 14psi. Otherwise your fuel with get very hot at low-loads being constantly circulated around the system (bad). I think your on to a good idea here, ignore the haters and those who never want to push the envelope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD3000GT Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Setup the 2nd and 3rd pumps only to turn on past, say, 14psi. Otherwise your fuel with get very hot at low-loads being constantly circulated around the system (bad). I think your on to a good idea here, ignore the haters and those who never want to push the envelope. Im not 100% sure on the electrics.. I know that at the moment my car runs both pumps all ways and they have the low 9v and high 12v when its needed. Not sure if that would help with the heating of the fuel and if I could get away with running 3 pumps like that..? Would it not make one more loop having them turn on when needed and what if that failed.... Recent trend on this forum is to flame people wanting to do new things.. Im so fed up of the copy someone elses car idea.. Thats really innovative guys! + my car is putting a lot more down than some of the cars Ive been told to copy..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD3000GT Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Why so many pumps, just more to go wrong unless you are using a protection circuit so if one fails then they all cut. 2 External pumps would be enough for 1000BHP with a swirl system. What if the pump keeps working and completing the circut but its not pumping fuel..? How would you setup the protection circut>? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 With your Motec, use an input for fuel pressure vs boost so that over X boost, fuel pressure must be min of X amount. Surely Owen Developemnts would be the best to speak to for this? Rest assured, with your EMS, you can do pretty much anything. Good luck with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD3000GT Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 With your Motec, use an input for fuel pressure vs boost so that over X boost, fuel pressure must be min of X amount. Surely Owen Developemnts would be the best to speak to for this? Rest assured, with your EMS, you can do pretty much anything. Good luck with it! Yea.. I could get them to do that. Forgot about the ECU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I've asked this before Chris but didn't get much of a response if anything. Really we need to know what the failure mode for the pumps are. ie do they require more current when they primarily fail or do they start to draw less? I would hazard a guess and say the former. Then it would be quite simple to hook up a warning light on the dash that would turn on as the current draw increased above a certain level. When setting the level, you'd need to ensure it's above the current draw of the pumps when you're at maximum boost, which is when the fuel system will see it's highest absolute pressure and the pumps working their hardest. If the pumps do start to draw less current then that's a bit trickier, and I'm sure someone with a better understanding of electrics could sort something out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I think your on to a good idea here, ignore the haters and those who never want to push the envelope. Was I pushing the envelope too far? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Was I pushing the envelope too far? Can't you go back to Supraforums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD3000GT Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 I've asked this before Chris but didn't get much of a response if anything. Really we need to know what the failure mode for the pumps are. ie do they require more current when they primarily fail or do they start to draw less? I would hazard a guess and say the former. Then it would be quite simple to hook up a warning light on the dash that would turn on as the current draw increased above a certain level. When setting the level, you'd need to ensure it's above the current draw of the pumps when you're at maximum boost, which is when the fuel system will see it's highest absolute pressure and the pumps working their hardest. If the pumps do start to draw less current then that's a bit trickier, and I'm sure someone with a better understanding of electrics could sort something out. You understand now why I want to run 3 all the time.. as long as I can overcome the heat problems... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD3000GT Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Was I pushing the envelope too far? A little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I've asked this before Chris but didn't get much of a response if anything. Really we need to know what the failure mode for the pumps are. ie do they require more current when they primarily fail or do they start to draw less? I would hazard a guess and say the former. Then it would be quite simple to hook up a warning light on the dash that would turn on as the current draw increased above a certain level. When setting the level, you'd need to ensure it's above the current draw of the pumps when you're at maximum boost, which is when the fuel system will see it's highest absolute pressure and the pumps working their hardest. If the pumps do start to draw less current then that's a bit trickier, and I'm sure someone with a better understanding of electrics could sort something out. Well I'm no electrician but I thought the idea of the protection circuit was to cut power to both pumps in the event of a failure. Much better than relying on you to notice a warning light and take action, in which case the engine might have already run lean and detonated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 A little Hey you said you didn't want to just copy someone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Chris, I've understood all along, re-read my posts, I've been backing you up! Well I'm no electrician but I thought the idea of the protection circuit was to cut power to both pumps in the event of a failure. Much better than relying on you to notice a warning light and take action, in which case the engine might have already run lean and detonated. I would think it would take quite a while for a pump to completely ie not pump at all. It would be a long drawn out process. (All my speculation of course) plus if you had a third pump that was there for back-up, you wouldn't need to worry about having lightning quick reflexes. Essentially what I'm talking about is knowing that a pump is *about to fail*. It would be nice to know before it did then you wouldn't have to rely on no.3 as a back-up. Ya get me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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