terribleturner Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Im after some ideas here please. I am getting pulse/voltage going into the ignitor pack I am getting pulse/voltage coming out the ignitor pack I am getting pulse/voltage just before the coil packs But i'm not getting any spark from the coil packs themselves. I have tested all of my coil packs with one plug from the loom and have now tested another pack from a working car on mine. Still nothing I've also tried a couple of spark plugs and have even put some wire in it close to an earthing point. Nothing. HHHHHEEEEELLLLLPPPPP!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeT Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 i thought you were having an auto electrician come out? Have you tried swapping out the ignitor pack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribleturner Posted July 6, 2006 Author Share Posted July 6, 2006 It seems auto electricians don't do house calls anymore. Had one and he brought £20K worth of kit and couldn't find a thing wrong. Have tried 4 different packs now and the same. They have then been put back on their own cars and have been fine, so not that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeT Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 i take it you've done the obvious and unplugged all associated plugs and connectors and cleaned and checked contacts, especially the crank sensor one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absz Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 if you getting pulse/voltage to the coil packs then you should see a spark. how are you checking the voltage ? the reason i ask is because if you are using a standard volt meter then its not checking for load, and if there is a bad connection or dry joint in your wiring/ignitor as soon as the current load is applied it will break the circuit. try rigging up a bulb or led to to the coil pack connecters as see if they glow while cranking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribleturner Posted July 6, 2006 Author Share Posted July 6, 2006 i take it you've done the obvious and unplugged all associated plugs and connectors and cleaned and checked contacts, especially the crank sensor one? Yeah crank sensor was out yesterday and is now back in. The crank and camshaft sensors are fine if you getting pulse/voltage to the coil packs then you should see a spark. how are you checking the voltage ? the reason i ask is because if you are using a standard volt meter then its not checking for load, and if there is a bad connection or dry joint in your wiring/ignitor as soon as the current load is applied it will break the circuit. try rigging up a bulb or led to to the coil pack connecters as see if they glow while cranking. You will have to excuse any electric mistakes as im still a complete noob Yeah we used a normal volts meter for checking. It's also the second loom on the car so i have checked all wires for breaks etc and nothing. Like the idea of the bulb, will try that tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Swap in another ECU if there's someone close that will let you try theirs. Other than that, check your timing - I've had a similar problem before that saw us pulling our hair out - turned out the timing belt had jumped 5 teeth (!!!) at idle and the car just cut out and wouldn't start again. We checked everything fuel and ignition related (and I mean everything) and all looked fine. Took belt cover off and checked belt vs timing marks and sure enough we found the problem. Replaced belt and reset timing - car started and ran fine. Reason behind this phenomenon is the ECU isn't sending the spark / fuel signals when it needs to / when the valves are open, so the car doesn't start or run but all checks out fuelling and ignition wise. HTH, Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew7 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Rig up a temporary earth for the coil pack return, i.e. don't rely on the return wiring in the coil pack connector. If you have, as you say, verified the single feed to the coil pack, only connect that to the coil pack and bear in mind it needs a complete circuit. Check the return "back to earth" circuit by creating an alternative path back to earth from the exit connection on the coil pack .... If your plugs then fire then it is the return path that is suspect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribleturner Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 Had 5 different ECU's in and out of the car and not a sausage. I'll check the belt tomorrow too. Both in and out feeds to the plugs are fine. You have the black/orange wire which is a power that sources all the way back the ign switch and the other coloured ones (red/??????) go into the ignitor pack which then return to the ECU. I sourced the black/orange all the way back and that's fine. Am pretty sure we checked the coloured one and found pulse/voltage FROM the ECU, going INTO the ignitor and back OUT of the ignitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 HI dude, Check + From the Coil pack clip, check Earth too. Pull the coil pack out with spark attacted, hold it next to the chassis and check for spark. IF yes, teh all good, if no then check cam angle sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bijal Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 my finger points to the crank sensor still. you need to ask yourself, what did you do to the car before this problem started to occure and revert back to it, thats IF you did anything, or unless this problem has occured out the blue like martin says, just take out the front coil pack assembly and touch put it to the front engine hook while cranking, if you see spark then obviously its another issue else where. if you dont see a spark then for sure its your crank sensor. bijal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeT Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 IF yes, teh all good, if no then check cam angle sensor. it does certainly sound like either cam or crank angle sensor doesn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeT Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 my finger points to the crank sensor still. ive said this from the beginning. Hes had an engine out rebuild and a single conversion. Hes checked to make sure the crank sensor is plugged back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bijal Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 ive said this from the beginning. Hes had an engine out rebuild and a single conversion. Hes checked to make sure the crank sensor is plugged back in. ok thats better, the crank sensor could be damaged or the plug side of the sensor might eb damaged, unplug the plug side and check inside to see the pins are ok and not bent or anything....thats if you havent done that already bijal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew7 Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Any news? Problem solved or not?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribleturner Posted July 9, 2006 Author Share Posted July 9, 2006 No not yet i do have another crank sensor ready to go in tomorrow but tbh im not holding my breath. Im was getting the correct resistance from the one im going to pull out, would that not suggest it was all right?? i'll report back tomoorow after it's replaced. "like martin says, just take out the front coil pack assembly and touch put it to the front engine hook while cranking, if you see spark then obviously its another issue else where. if you dont see a spark then for sure its your crank sensor. " This is how i have been testing the spark. I have even unplugged all the others to concentrate on just the one pack. Even sometimes laying it on the battery negative. Not a sausage. The car defies logic and is really getting me down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absz Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 crank/cam sensors normally control both ignition and fuel circuits so if your injectors are opening/closing and you have fuel pressure i don't think it could be the sensors ? just my opinion i could be wrong:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribleturner Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Injectors are definatly working you can smell the fuel a mile away I don't get why i would get th pulse right up to the packs but not throught the packs themselves?? Will thee crank sensor actually stop the pulse there?? Oh well i have a new one to go on now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absz Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Injectors are definatly working you can smell the fuel a mile away I don't get why i would get th pulse right up to the packs but not throught the packs themselves?? Will thee crank sensor actually stop the pulse there?? Oh well i have a new one to go on now. are you checking across both coilpack connecters for a reading or using the earth as ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew7 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 TT What voltage were you getting from the feeds to the coil packs?.. Just out of interest, have you taken a resistance reading between the LT cicuits, i.e feed and return (bridge the coil connector pins with the ohmmeter)?...it should be max resistance during the non-firing period. My logic is nagging me that you have an LT circuit breakdown on the return/earthing side as that would be the only part of the circuit that is common to all coilpacks.....someone correct me if I am wrong here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribleturner Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 No go with the crnk shaft sensor ive been told. Andrew, do you mean between the pins on the coil packs themselves?? If so think i have but can't remember what it was. I will have to double check when i can get up to the car again. Thinking im going to offer a reward to anyone who can go and fix the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absz Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Thinking im going to offer a reward to anyone who can go and fix the problem. i might have to get the old scope out and dust it off then:d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I've come into this late, pardon me if any of this has been covered, but I would have thought that if you are measuring pulses at the igniter and the ECU then the crank and cam pos sensors must be working? Plus no error codes say all that is working? Could it be one of those funny things where the pulse from the igniter pack hasn't got the current to do anything as it's going through a high resistance beforehand? -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew7 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Andrew, do you mean between the pins on the coil packs themselves?? If so think i have but can't remember what it was. I will have to double check when i can get up to the car again. No I mean the coil pack CONNECTOR pins....this will track any closed circuit (short) back into the ignitor or whereever the return from the coil pack feed ends up..wouldn't it be nice to have a wiring diagram handy....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribleturner Posted July 12, 2006 Author Share Posted July 12, 2006 Quick diagram below. Havn't got all my notes here but all 6 coloured wires out of the coils go to the Ignitor pack. Then 6 more coloured wires come out and down to the ECU. The ones to the coil pack i am using for testing have been extended. Voltage/pulse can be found right up to the plugs themselves. The black/orange one is the common that also mates up with the black/orange off the injectors. So i know this is working alright. Have even over rided the ignition switch and wired it straight to the battery from the fuse. Error codes were like O2 sensor not it, which i know and something else equally un important but it escapes me now. Im also pretty sure that the voltage/pulse and resistance is the same as any other tt/single supra. Abs, if you get it started there's £100 with your name on mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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