AshBhp Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 What like, HKS would say, ''can you stick a HKS badge on this particular turbo'' Garrett would say, ''yes Sir three bags full'' Like F..k would they. HKS pay $$$$ to Garrett to further develop a HKS turbo, fore which HKS would have sole copy rights to. Hence Garret or HKS will not disclose the difference in turbos. So would you say, ''its just a Garrett rebadged''? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian W Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 just thought i'd say it's a bit of a shame this thread has gone so far off-track. i was looking forward to the updates on Bijal's Supra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraStar 3000 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 excellent work guys! Looks like another great thread trashed because some people can't take a hint and move on. sorry Bijal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 What like, HKS would say, ''can you stick a HKS badge on this particular turbo'' Garrett would say, ''yes Sir three bags full'' Like F..k would they. HKS pay $$$$ to Garrett to further develop a HKS turbo, fore which HKS would have sole copy rights to. Hence Garret or HKS will not disclose the difference in turbos. So would you say, ''its just a Garrett rebadged''? What about if HKS say to Garrett, can we buy your wheels & cartridges and put our own housings on, Garrett is a commecial outfit after all But again you are missing the point. All we are looking for is some real tech data that they are proven superior, and non seems to exists, in which case it is not proven. Not once has anyone said the HKS is a bad unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 just thought i'd say it's a bit of a shame this thread has gone so far off-track. i was looking forward to the updates on Bijal's Supra. I thought I'd stumbled into Pedant's Corner by mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkirby Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Cant the mods delete all the posts after the first one?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I (personaly) have used the following turbos / turbo kits: Greddy T78, Greddy T88, Greddy T67, HKS TO4R, HKS T51R Kai, HKS T51R SPL, PHR Stage 1, stage 2. Unfortunatley usage on these have not always been on a supra, its been a mixture of Skyline GTR's and RX7's also. obviously the american brands have never been on rx7 or skyline. So not a single Garrett or BL turbo yet in this post http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showpost.php?p=774680&postcount=137 we have done the testing ourself thats why we know and are amazed at the differences compared to the "equivalent" garrett or even BL range. bijal Make your mind up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 yeah mods delete away,let spin and BS prevail, I think the statement remains unproven and no one has been shut up. yes the hks turbo by far is the best in the market. i have said this time and time again and proven it but some people seem to think its the same as the garret based versions which is not true and totally incorrect. certain threads have been proven and shut a few people up in the debate on hks turbos. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I don't think this should be deleted at all. I think it's a great example of "technical avoidance" where you make a wild claim about SOMETHING YOU SELL and then completely fail to back it up despite being asked a simple, clear, and easily answerable (if you could in fact back up your claim) question several times. Instead it goes down the usual road of backfilling, u-turns, martyrdom, and stroppiness. I think this will be a very useful thread to have come up in search results. (speaking of which, Bijal Future Motorsports turbo HKS technical details T04Z proven differences. There, that's some nice search engine keywords.) Right, fume and rant alert - All you people accusing us of being "pedants" or having some sort of axe to grind, and going "waah waah" about this thread being "ruined" and no pictures of shiny things heading your way feel free to suck on down wild unproven claims by TRADERS ABOUT THE STUFF THEY SELL No vested interest there I wonder what the profit margin is on this HKS turbo, eh? Thought about that? I bet Bijal has THAT data firmly noted down... And how many of you would fork out for an FSE valve now? Jesus, I dunno, sometimes I wonder why *I* bother trying to ask the questions that help stop you lot from being ripped off. I mean, Terry, Alex, et al already unfairly have reps as someone who "picks on people", have you ever stopped to consider why they constantly bring up some traders on technical details about their claims? And those claims are pretty much never proven? They aren't bored, you fools, they just don't like ripoffs because we've all been on the wrong end of it before. Open your minds. Normally I bite my tongue on this sort of thing because of being the tech moderator etc etc but I'm just fed up with it today -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymanuk Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I don't think anything should be deleted. There is nothing wrong with what Terry is saying especially after Bijal claimed to have done all the testing himself. Not having a go but people are misinterpreting what terry is trying to ASK. If it was a typo or and error in conveying what you are doing fine. Say so. But if you say: - Originally Posted by Future Motorsports we have done the testing ourself thats why we know and are amazed at the differences compared to the "equivalent" garrett or even BL range. bijal I understand both sides of the arg and Bijal you may feel you are being attacked but you should be able to say if you make that claim. SO Terry has a point. Even if you send stuff off to and independent tester they would explain how the test are carried out and their results etc.. I think the more technical people who are INTERESTED in Bijal's project have a RIGHT to ask. That is what this club is for! Some people find photos of the build fun alone and wish they could do that (like me) but some also find the more technical details comforting and fun. I don't see why questions can't be answered if you state you do all the testing yourself and you are tuning the Supra too. Why can't people just answer and not let it get too heated. Christ man if you post on the forum you should be prepared or don't bother. Early on this thread CW was brought up and how no one flame's him. That's because he answers all the questions and try's to help. Same I have found with other members on here such as Alex, Mig. Yes photos are a benefit to the club but not as much as technical details. Oilman is another. He did not just say this synthetic is better than what Chavfraud's sell on the shelf, he explained all the processes in manufacturing of the oil's and I have a better understanding now of what oil I am choosing and more feel more comfortable in what I am choosing. I would like that from this project not just photo's of parts and claims. If I want to look at a shopping list, there is plenty on line to look at. Come on Bijal lets have more please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 And on that subject, How many members from this board are taking any traders to court right now for bad / missing work? Now there is a question! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian W Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 although i've said it's a shame the thread has gone off-track i still don't think anything should be deleted as such. perhaps the technical questions about the Garrett/HKS turbos could simply be moved to a different thread so those who want to view the car's progress can do so and those who are interest in the turbo specs can do so without trawling through pages and pages. just an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Ian, Terry & Rayman - completely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraStar 3000 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 well thats that fucked then isn't it! Cheers guys. IanC, I really appreciate your technical knowledge on our cars AND even an unbiased opinion on which parts are best. But 10 pages is just O.T.T on this issue and I guess we'll never know what other aspects we could all have learnt from this story if it wouldn't have been left to run its course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 well thats that fucked then isn't it! Cheers guys. IanC, I really appreciate your technical knowledge on our cars AND even an unbiased opinion on which parts are best. But 10 pages is just O.T.T on this issue and I guess we'll never know what other aspects we could all have learnt from this story if it wouldn't have been left to run its course. Why was it 10 pages? Because, Bijal didn't just say "It's a fair cop, my statement was totally based on my thoughts and not any hard facts." If he'd done this the thread would have stayed more on target. So are you going to blame us for pointing out someone's talking bollox or is it the fault of the person that made the fcuk in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian W Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Bijal made a statement based on personal opinion and feedback from his customers rather than cold, hard facts. As such can't we just leave it at that, split the thread moving the technical parts to another thread and let his original thread run as intended? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bijal Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Why was it 10 pages? Because, Bijal didn't just say "It's a fair cop, my statement was totally based on my thoughts and not any hard facts." If he'd done this the thread would have stayed more on target. So are you going to blame us for pointing out someone's talking bollox or is it the fault of the person that made the fcuk in the first place? here we go again...bring it back up again...for fucks sake... i am only going to say this for the last time and withdraw my interest on this thread. i will put it in simple terms and as always, straight to the point....and no doubt, i am sure someone will find a problem in what i say... I (personaly) have used the following turbos / turbo kits: Greddy T78, Greddy T88, Greddy T67, HKS TO4R, HKS T51R Kai, HKS T51R SPL, PHR Stage 1, stage 2. Unfortunatley usage on these have not always been on a supra, its been a mixture of Skyline GTR's and RX7's also. obviously the american brands have never been on rx7 or skyline. I have an excellent source and a good customer base in the middle east that i supply to regular, they all at some point have experienced Direct Garrett units from the states such as the HPF turbo kits, PHR turbo kits. Onces they started to use HKS units they were shocked at its spool chareteristics and ever since theres been never ending supplies of hks turbos or their kits shipping to the middle east. now, no specific controlled test has been ever conducted by myself, but one thing i will say is that from "immediate" 1st impressions the hks units have always surprised me on the spool side of things and also how light weight they are. In the 1st few posts i did state that i have proven that the hks units are far better, but one thing i made a mistake in not noting was to say that it was to myself, hence IT WAS MY OPINION. The test wasnt in a lab, just from pure coinsidentle experience and my luck that i have had the oppertunity to have driven cars with the above units. look at what Mike posted up... not much different to what i said? dont see him getting flamed? (no mike, i aint trying to push the lime light onto you mate ) maybe cos he said thats his opinion? no wonder some traders dont bother joining or posting on the forum, they are probably scared to incase shit like this happens. look at the Thor post on the MR2 owners club. All they did was say they had an MR2 in for mapping and showed some photos. and people flamed their ass for no reason HKS did not build the sumo engine, i THINK it was GT Art. Another car you forgot to metion was the Abbey Motorsport greyish R34 GTR, it had an HKS T51Kai BB and for some strange reason struggled to hit low 10's in the quarter mile.. i believe they changed it to HKS TO4Z and hit low 10's and from the top of my head high 9's not too long ago. and they are still using the HKS TO4Z at present. this thread WAS suppose to be fun and full of planned photos and our write up on the project, something EVERYONE enjoys. Those of you who have tried changing the subject, i thank you for your efforts in doing so. i'm out...... what more do you want? I have said this time and time again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondjump Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 well thats that fucked then isn't it! Cheers guys. IanC, I really appreciate your technical knowledge on our cars AND even an unbiased opinion on which parts are best. But 10 pages is just O.T.T on this issue and I guess we'll never know what other aspects we could all have learnt from this story if it wouldn't have been left to run its course. ...like hks is best etc. lol. If you like pics and bling with plenty of sales spiel try some online stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 What about if HKS say to Garrett, can we buy your wheels & cartridges and put our own housings on, Garrett is a commecial outfit after all But again you are missing the point. All we are looking for is some real tech data that they are proven superior, and non seems to exists, in which case it is not proven. Not once has anyone said the HKS is a bad unit. It's heard enough trying to get technical specs on a pair of hybrids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymanuk Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 man can we drop it now, lets get on with the other stuff. Sod HKS its all subjective without hard evidence and controlled testing. Bijel have you got any more details of the buid/setup etc and pic's of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Ok mate, now that we have gone off topic for ages, where are some more pics... of the car, the engine, suspension, brakes, etc. What are you looking for, IE performace wise out of this car? What suspension and brake setups are you going to be going for? Diff? What sort of chasis strengthening are you doing? G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soop Dogg Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I think if Bijal hadn't used relative terms to describe the parts he's using he wouldn't have attracted so many questions. For example, he talked about HKS being 'Superior' and 'better' and used the words 'compared to the equivalent Garrett' etc. Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, but if you say something is 'Superior' or 'better', then you are saying it is superior RELATIVE TO SOMETHING ELSE. This implied he had knowledge of the other manufacturers kit. If you don't have knowledge of the other kit, the best you can say about an item is that it is 'very good' or maybe 'the best I have experienced' etc. But Bijal was adamant that HKS was better than other stuff, and I myself simply wanted to know what made it better. That is all I asked. But instead of just putting his hands up and admitting stright away that perhaps he worded his posts a bit too strongly or that he shouldn't have said things the way he did, he contimued spouting rubbish and got caught out. It kind of came over like this: 'HKS is the best because........well......it just is - I know so believe me.' 'And I have proven this to many people. I don't need to go into technical details, I have proven it - believe me.' 'HKS aren't the best just because they are HKS, it's because the technology that goes into them is amazing! I'm not going into details about the technology, but really - it's amazing! I was amazed!' Sorry, but I don't accept things so easily. It's a bit like accepting everything the government tells us without using our own minds to ask 'WHY?' and I'm sure we all know the value in questioning our government!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkirby Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I just like the fact that the most people/traders that are ripping this guy to pieces either sell something thats in competition to HKS or run one of the other turbo kits!! I'm not saying HKS are simple the best turbos in the world but i have had experience with them and IMHO i rate them very highly. I read this thread as his own opinion so i really cant see the issue and maybe theres more behind it??? We get the same thing on the 300zx board, when most traders post up something, theres always people loyal to other traders which jump on them and this i feel is what this thread has turned into!? please tell me other wise and i will apolgies Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupra Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I dont wanna get in on the row, but I agrre with you Soop Dogg, it would of been much less confrontational if the words "what i meant was, in my opinion" were used alot earlier. You cant expect someone to believe what you say if you've only proved what your trying to get across to yourself. With regards to the rest of the build, I hope it goes well, an we get to read more info, (proven), an see some more pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Cant the mods delete all the posts after the first one?? I think bijal can do that himself if he wants... is that not the way the traders sections work? ie: they can delete what ever posts they want? I for one would like to see this back on topic:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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