BURT Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 the answer to your question MATE is i honestly dont know.. but very clever that you answer my question with another one... so now can you answer my question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Are there any drag based supras that have run a sub 8 second Quater mile using HKS Turbos???? How about one that goes deep into the 7's http://mkiv.supras.org.nz/articles/hpi15_2.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezz Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 How about one that goes deep into the 7's http://mkiv.supras.org.nz/articles/hpi15_2.htm You mean the 4litre v8 one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkirby Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 How about one that goes deep into the 7's http://mkiv.supras.org.nz/articles/hpi15_2.htm yeh but we all know everything runs faster in the USA no doubt they have supras running stock turbos in the 10's over there and as most supra owners know the CRD supra is the fastest with correct me if i'm wrong but around 9.4 sec 1/4 and they run ermmmm a HKS T51R SPL turbo must be pretty happy with it or no doubt they would have changed it. Mr Cowie was running HKS 2835'S on his record breaking skyline as well as the sumo R34 so i think a pattern is forming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkirby Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 You mean the 4litre v8 one? yeh but what turbos is it running which is the argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 the answer to your question MATE is i honestly dont know.. but very clever that you answer my question with another one... so now can you answer my question... i think he's saying that the fastest supra in the uk is powered by a HKS turbo. (the Calder supra) opps that'll teach me to spend a penny before posting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkirby Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 HKS dont do drag http://videos.streetfire.net/video/6C0944FD-B14A-4120-8526-91C24DDCE139.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 i am not avoiding any questions. you are asking me questions that cannot be proven by ANYONE and not just myself. So i am asking you...if you have different conclusion (which you clearly do) then please provide proof of that too. Um, Bijal, dunno what you are talking about here, Terry asked you (a few times now) what the differences were between the centre cartridges, shaft, and the wheels of each turbo. You can, like, measure some of that with a ruler or something... I mean if you've done all this testing to prove (to yourself) which is best, I would have thought some consideration of the wheel sizes would have come into it pretty early on. Especially at the cost of these blighters. TBH it's looking like you just bought the shiniest one, bigged it up publically with some pretty assertive statements: "the hks turbo by far is the best in the market. i have said this time and time again and proven it" ...and now you're desperately trying to justify it after being brought up on those statements Have you got the differences? Any hints of the amazing technology used to make it spin up slower than a T67? Any datalogs? Dyno charts? Compressor maps...? I mean it's kinda obvious by now that you haven't, but for the sake of fairness here is another chance to shut us all up -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 yeh but we all know everything runs faster in the USA That car is from Japan, not the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkirby Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 That car is from Japan, not the USA. that was more a statement for the people who only quote the yank times and bhp etc i wont post anymore in this thread as its not just gone off at a tangent but doubled back and gone on a jolly as well lol so will wait till the next step of the project Good luck with it Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyotatom Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Is there not a single trader on here that deals in Boostlogic and HKS and would for the sake of club knowledge be able to settle this in a kind of 'Turbo shootout' on one car. Id be interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 yeh but we all know everything runs faster in the USA no doubt they have supras running stock turbos in the 10's over there and as most supra owners know the CRD supra is the fastest with correct me if i'm wrong but around 9.4 sec 1/4 and they run ermmmm a HKS T51R SPL turbo must be pretty happy with it or no doubt they would have changed it. Mr Cowie was running HKS 2835'S on his record breaking skyline as well as the sumo R34 so i think a pattern is forming I was led to believe Keith was Running a GT series turbo from turbo Dynamics as he thought the HKS wasnt doing the job for his spec. That would make him a Garrett convert http://www.keithcowie.com/phone.jpg As far as Im aware the Fastest Skyline in the world is in OZ and runs a Trust ( dont quote me on that) as it could possibly be a Garrett Too. Best way to check is on this site I think http:http://www.exvitermini.com/, If its still up. And Yes Crd Is currently the fastest over here for now..But the the amount of lauging gas they use it's hardly supprising so that preety much rules out the the superior advantage turbo comparison ..as does their 9" rear axle. Oh and as for Sumo using HKS turbos ,Well so would you If it was your main source of help and the brand you stick to being a super HKS dealer. Doesnt mean they are better or worse than anything else.They also have HKS build their engines for them..does that make the superior to OS giken or Jun ? Be nice to do a head to head engine dyno test ( not rolling road) and see what is the better turbo as this is goind round in circles and direct questions are not getting answered. How anyone can say HKS are better or the best turbos without actualy having tested or used all of them themselves is beyond me but there you go . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupra Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 At the end of the day there doesn't seem to be any hard data or facts with regard to which turbo is best. There needs to be some real testing done, (same car an conditions), to see any performance differances, and as to differances with the internals of the turbos themselves, i'm sure an experianced eye (not mine, thats for sure) would be able to tell ?. Opinions should be shown as opinions, not as proven, or as facts. Everyone has differant views on the same thing, neither one could be seen as wrong. The evidence, if it ever comes, will speak for itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkirby Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 I was led to believe Keith was Running a GT series turbo from turbo Dynamics as he thought the HKS wasnt doing the job for his spec. That would make him a Garrett convert http://www.keithcowie.com/phone.jpg As far as Im aware the Fastest Skyline in the world is in OZ and runs a Trust ( dont quote me on that) as it could possibly be a Garrett Too. Best way to check is on this site I think http:http://www.exvitermini.com/, If its still up. And Yes Crd Is currently the fastest over here for now..But the the amount of lauging gas they use it's hardly supprising so that preety much rules out the the superior advantage turbo comparison ..as does their 9" rear axle. Oh and as for Sumo using HKS turbos ,Well so would you If it was your main source of help and the brand you stick to being a super HKS dealer. Doesnt mean they are better or worse than anything else.They also have HKS build their engines for them..does that make the superior to OS giken or Jun ? Be nice to do a head to head engine dyno test ( not rolling road) and see what is the better turbo as this is goind round in circles and direct questions are not getting answered. How anyone can say HKS are better or the best turbos without actualy having tested or used all of them themselves is beyond me but there you go . OK one last post Yes keith does now run (or will be running once mapped up and run in) a garrett GT42/47 custom turbo now but his record was done on his HKS turbo set up The fastest skyline is still the HKS R33 which runs the HKS 3540 turbo setup i think EDIT Keith ran with the HKS 3037 turbos not 2835?? my bad Unfortunatly its an argument that will never be settled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 I'm going to have to agree here that this will never be settled. It was a simple question about what makes the HKS turbo far superior over the Garrett of the shelf equivalent and is it worth the extra dinero. I thought it a very simple direct question and one that would have been great benefit to the club as a whole. After all asking questions is how people learn and having evidence to back it up even more so..Ah well never mind onwards and upwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Cor, I don't know. All this thread and people still haven't realised. If it costs more, and looks shiney, especially if it has something annodised, it's bound to be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 The trouble is there are so many conflicting views, information and misinformation flying around because lets face those selling stuff will always favour their products. Ok some will believe they actually are (and maybe they are) the best or at least the best VFM, others may know they are not but shout about them anyway............we the masses are left second guessing and have little concrete evidence either way of what is and isn't BS/Hype etc etc. Its ok going on about how can a HKS turbo be worth so much above others, but when someone posts up that they are getting some cheap turbo manifold or IC they are in turn told, by the same people snubbing the expensive HKS, that these are cheap inferior products (again maybe they are) Its like the phrase often quoted "buy cheap buy twice" but to some degree this only seems to apply when it suits. My view though is that arguing about turbo's is one of the least contentious issues as none of the single turbo's themselves seem prone to failures of blades or seals and all types make very high BHP. The battle of the best turbo is really of no concern to all but the very highest power owners/tuners. What i'm saying is i don't think their are any 'really' bad choices that can be made when selecting a turbo, it seems that by far the biggest challenge for a successful single is the ECU and its mapping which is a far bigger minefield for the average punter to try and negotiate thier way through........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr keef Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 I want to see photos of the build. I couldn't give two tosses about the turbo argument. Yea me to!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Yeah good point, where is the build photos if you have done the testing? Common, Ive put mine up! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 What i'm saying is i don't think their are any 'really' bad choices that can be made when selecting a turbo, it seems that by far the biggest challenge for a successful single is the ECU and its mapping which is a far bigger minefield for the average punter to try and negotiate thier way through........ Its a bigger minefield that that. Ecu is a very good point but really the whole system should be thought of as a package. Fuel system ,Turbo choice and manifolds are just as important as ecu's. No-one would want a turbo that surged/chewd itself or a manifold that would fall appart or difficult to fit would they ? Same as no one would want to pay Over inflated prices for something that does the same job as something else a little down the range price wise but was just a reliable and yielded the same possible performance gains? I think this is why this question was raised ..so some fact and figures could come out so us as punters can make honest informative choices and put our money where we belive suits our needs the best. Simply saying Its the best is a bit like me saying My silk turd cutters are better than your pants..Why ? coz they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Do HKS not produce thier turbos in collaboration with Garrett USA??? I know Blitz work with KKK, and *think* i read somewhere about the garret hks relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bijal Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Um, Bijal, dunno what you are talking about here, Terry asked you (a few times now) what the differences were between the centre cartridges, shaft, and the wheels of each turbo. You can, like, measure some of that with a ruler or something... I mean if you've done all this testing to prove (to yourself) which is best, I would have thought some consideration of the wheel sizes would have come into it pretty early on. Especially at the cost of these blighters. TBH it's looking like you just bought the shiniest one, bigged it up publically with some pretty assertive statements: "the hks turbo by far is the best in the market. i have said this time and time again and proven it" ...and now you're desperately trying to justify it after being brought up on those statements Have you got the differences? Any hints of the amazing technology used to make it spin up slower than a T67? Any datalogs? Dyno charts? Compressor maps...? I mean it's kinda obvious by now that you haven't, but for the sake of fairness here is another chance to shut us all up -Ian here we go again...bring it back up again...for fucks sake... i am only going to say this for the last time and withdraw my interest on this thread. i will put it in simple terms and as always, straight to the point....and no doubt, i am sure someone will find a problem in what i say... I (personaly) have used the following turbos / turbo kits: Greddy T78, Greddy T88, Greddy T67, HKS TO4R, HKS T51R Kai, HKS T51R SPL, PHR Stage 1, stage 2. Unfortunatley usage on these have not always been on a supra, its been a mixture of Skyline GTR's and RX7's also. obviously the american brands have never been on rx7 or skyline. I have an excellent source and a good customer base in the middle east that i supply to regular, they all at some point have experienced Direct Garrett units from the states such as the HPF turbo kits, PHR turbo kits. Onces they started to use HKS units they were shocked at its spool chareteristics and ever since theres been never ending supplies of hks turbos or their kits shipping to the middle east. now, no specific controlled test has been ever conducted by myself, but one thing i will say is that from "immediate" 1st impressions the hks units have always surprised me on the spool side of things and also how light weight they are. In the 1st few posts i did state that i have proven that the hks units are far better, but one thing i made a mistake in not noting was to say that it was to myself, hence IT WAS MY OPINION. The test wasnt in a lab, just from pure coinsidentle experience and my luck that i have had the oppertunity to have driven cars with the above units. look at what Mike posted up... I love the HKS TO4Z turbo Mate has one on his 2.8 ltr R33 and its just mental on the road and in my opinion the best road turbo out there!! full boost by 3500 revs and makes 650 BHP at the hubs!! and for such an amount of power its not that big a turbo but the technology nowadays makes up for it. Should make for an interesting track car, what gearbox you going for, my friend has the OS Giken 6 Speed Seq box and it takes a little getting used to it but once you are you can bang through the gears with such a speed Mike not much different to what i said? dont see him getting flamed? (no mike, i aint trying to push the lime light onto you mate ) maybe cos he said thats his opinion? no wonder some traders dont bother joining or posting on the forum, they are probably scared to incase shit like this happens. look at the Thor post on the MR2 owners club. All they did was say they had an MR2 in for mapping and showed some photos. and people flamed their ass for no reason They also have HKS build their engines for them..does that make the superior to OS giken or Jun ? HKS did not build the sumo engine, i THINK it was GT Art. Another car you forgot to metion was the Abbey Motorsport greyish R34 GTR, it had an HKS T51Kai BB and for some strange reason struggled to hit low 10's in the quarter mile.. i believe they changed it to HKS TO4Z and hit low 10's and from the top of my head high 9's not too long ago. and they are still using the HKS TO4Z at present. this thread WAS suppose to be fun and full of planned photos and our write up on the project, something EVERYONE enjoys. Those of you who have tried changing the subject, i thank you for your efforts in doing so. i'm out...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Now that all depends on what version of engine your are talking about because their latest incarnation is defo HKS built and supplied;) Bijal Maybe if you had stated that it is your own Opinion Not data proven opinion in the 1st place 1/2 of this What you think is a gang band would not have happened. The way I see it is a quest for information that is not getting answered but you as trader should be hard enough to be able to take whatever question is thrown at you. If you choose to duck and dive and not answer to what i see as more than one person asking the same questions on here then you really leave yourself open for it. I think ( i know about me) customers are slowly getting more and more tech savvy and would like to know what they are spending their money on. BTW TH#R is not the best example to bring into your situation ..They have got themselves in their situation....ring any bells;) Oh BTW I dont thnink HKS turbos are bad I would quite happily have one if given to me as i too have HKS parts on my car..Just would like to know what makes them stand out. Takin HKS sales targets out of he loop and being neutral for a second Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 As he's lost interest in the thread, can I ask a question from the back of the class? Despite Alex quite clearly showing the Garrett being a better choice at face value, what about turbo longevity? Has it ever been tested? I liked the idea of the turbo shootout on an engine dyno, and while spooltimes are fab, and so is raw power, it would be bloody interesting to see how long each turbine lasts? Could it be that you are paying 100% more upfront for the T04Z, but it'd last five times longer than the T67DBB..... Who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Difficult one that as there are so many variables. race conditions , road conditions ..level of boost run all the time etc etc. Both companies have had very good success with their reliabilty with regards how long they have been doing race cars and road apps. Another factor would be IF in the event of failure which one would be cheaper/easier to get maintained/repaired Ie parts availability do HKS repair their own turbos or do you take them to a Turbo specialist and are the parts readily available for them at a swallowable cost???. Disclamer, The following is my personal own opinion Garrett, IHI, KKK are a few of the long standing Turbo makers in the world that supply the OEM market so I think You would be prety safe in the knowlege that reliability and repairability wont be too bad. HKS have been selling Turbos for a number of years, although I fear they shift no where near the number the others do or cover the range of vehicles either, Hence why it would make sense for HKS to get one of the bigger names to build their turbos for them. Just like Greedy, Blitz do. Take from that what you will, But your question on reliability is a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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