Project Future Motorsports Supra......

[bondango]

i have said I have proven the hks turbo is superior compared to other common turbos in the market TO MYSELF and people i know. they were claims from my personal experience gained and opinions expressed accordingly. this experience has come in a form of learning spool charecteristics, drivabilty etc compared to other turbos i have used. i have found EVERYTIME HKS to exceed my expectations.

 

yes i always wish there is alternative cheaper tubos out there, yes there are turbos that match them very close but NEVER have the edge on them like HKS does.

 

it is very easy to become a garrett agent or sub agent. no big deal. all i am saying is from my experience hks is the best. i will KEEP saying that until i am proven wrong. when and if i am proven wrong then i will happily change my views and add that new information into my brain and class it as a learning curv.

 

and we go back in circles again, give me proof that the garrett turbo is far superior or the same as the hks turbo? you want to contradict my personal experience like it is a sin i have made, then please humor me with proof too.

 

i made the claims through personal experience. they are valid claims, and thats all they are until proven or personally experienced. simple as.

 

 

So why are you using that turbo again?? lol (irish humour)

 

As said everyone has thier opinions on what to use and what not to, your build man, your car, just do it :-))

 

Persoanally i would just run 6 x t25's meself

[SupraStar 3000]

jeeezus!

If we get 5 pages on which hair dryers is best, I shudder to think how long it will grow when Bijal ask's what colour he should paint the car.

 

Keep us updated dude

[Guest Terry S]

Guys, this will be an interesting thread, my only problem was with Bijal's comment

yes the hks turbo by far is the best in the market. i have said this time and time again and proven it but some people seem to think its the same as the garret based versions which is not true and totally incorrect. certain threads have been proven and shut a few people up in the debate on hks turbos.

 

i agree 200%, hks turbos are the best, not because its hks but the design and technology gone into it is just amazing.

 

Now when you make comments like that and this

they are not garrett gt42r's rebadged. they are totaly different. the hks version is EXTREMELY light weight and far advanced design. i cannot enphasise that enough.

 

bijal

 

You should have technical knowledge/facts to back it up IMHO. I too have many HKS products on my car, but there are also HKS products I wouldnt use on my car. I have at no point said the HKS turbos are bad, far from it, they are Garretts after all and I am making no statement about any turbo being superior.

 

So in an attempt to get a straight answer, this is a direct question, to Bijal. No frills needed, no waffle, and no off tangent answers.

 

What are the wheel, shaft or cartridge differences between the Garrett and HKS Units that make them so superior to the Garrett GT range? If you dont answer in a direct way I will go on assuming that HKS just use fancy housings and charge a huge premium.

[Gamer]

Give the guy a break. I do not see anyone hounding the 'holier than thou' CW about his claims that his SM intercoolers are better or flow more then others....

 

Stop nit picking and let the guy get on with his thread.

[Guest Terry S]

Give the guy a break. I do not see anyone hounding the 'holier than thou' CW about his claims that his SM intercoolers are better or flow more then others....

 

Stop nit picking and let the guy get on with his thread.

 

So you think me asking for a straight answer is nit picking? Please look at the thread again, see who made the first statement.

[Gamer]

Terry, if he had the info I think he would have posted it by now. You know that, I know that and I am sure he knows that too.

 

I took what he originally said as his personal opinion nothing more. It seems as if you guys are just trying to get him to backtrack on what he said and admit he is wrong.

 

You are all worried that some numpty might come along and make a bad decision based on his statements. I think you are assuming that people are stupid and make major purchases like this based on one persons comment in a thread. That's just silly.

 

Anyway, I do not really want to become embroiled in this mess.

[Guest Terry S]

Understood Joe, just sick of some of the BS that goes unchecked on this forum nowdays.

[Alex]

I'll post hard information then...for starters, see this thread.

 

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=238333&highlight=T04Z

 

Dyno Charts : Ian C's NON DBB T67 (.68) vs. a T04Z on Supra Gold's Car.

(NB: Ian's is on a stock engine using an e-Manage tuned by himself/SupraGolds's is a built engine and head with Fcon V Pro ECU tuneed by Abbey)

 

If you look at the numbers it's clear to see that even the NON DBB T67 is faster to spool and produces more power for less boost (Ian ran 1.4bar peak and Supra Gold ran a 1.5bar peak).

 

As SupraGold's Supra is running a built longblock and fully programmable ECU it should be faster/more powerful...but the turbo simply can't produce the numbers. The DBB version of the T67 will piss on the spool of the T04Z even more.

[Ian C]

Hard data at last

 

 

C'mon Bijal, share your testing data with us You know how some of us like that sort of thing.

 

-Ian

[Guest Bijal]

 

What are the wheel, shaft or cartridge differences between the Garrett and HKS Units that make them so superior to the Garrett GT range? If you dont answer in a direct way I will go on assuming that HKS just use fancy housings and charge a huge premium.

.

 

Terry S: There are two specs on the HKS T51 ( numbers are chosen to confuse IMHO) one is just over a 70mm wheel, the other around a 74mm.

 

Basically they are Garrett GT42R's rebaged.

 

Guys I am not saying it is EXACTLY the same. HKS arent daft by a long stretch they do some funky housings for the turbos just look at the T04Z ( which appears to be basically a GT40-67R) with the anti surge design compared with Garretts anti surge housing, but I am pretty sure that change is for looks but I might be wrong. What I am saying is they are virtually identical to off the shelf Garrett offerings. I would love to know what other changes there are if any and welcome any tech input into the finer details between Garrett and HKS

 

these are asumptions you are making from YOUR experience. I am doing the same in MY experience, whats wrong with that? if you have the proof of difference then please post....

 

you are also constantly changing the garrett equivilents, whats with that? some confusion? or memory laps issues?

 

 

Below a bit of info on turbo-

 

''While HKS does use Garret for their turbo assembly, the units are designed by a joint venture between the two firms.The difference with the HKS version and the Garrett version is the wheel combinations that HKS uses are proprietary to HKS, and cannot be ordered through Garrett directly, although you can often get close. This the same deal with GReddy/Trust turbos and Mitsubishi, Blitz and KKK, and Power Enterprise and Apex and IHI. While all must rely on the actual manufacturer of the turbo center sections for the general supply, the specs each offers are unique to that particular manufacturer.''

 

 

 

so terry, you seem to know (on the above first 3 posts some details in YOUR HONEST OPINION" the answers, so share it with all of us.....give me evidence that the garrett is just a re-badge. like i said before, if it IS then fine, i have my conclusions and you will have yours.

 

you dont have evidence to back your claims and neither do i. they are called PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AND PERSONAL OPINIONS

[Alex]

Please comment on my hard data...or are you going to blame the mapper at Abbey who's done more Fcon's than you can shake a stick at?

[Guest Bijal]

I'll post hard information then...for starters, see this thread.

 

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=238333&highlight=T04Z

 

Dyno Charts : Ian C's NON DBB T67 (.68) vs. a T04Z on Supra Gold's Car.

(NB: Ian's is on a stock engine using an e-Manage tuned by himself/SupraGolds's is a built engine and head with Fcon V Pro ECU tuneed by Abbey)

 

If you look at the numbers it's clear to see that even the NON DBB T67 is faster to spool and produces more power for less boost (Ian ran 1.4bar peak and Supra Gold ran a 1.5bar peak).

 

As SupraGold's Supra is running a built longblock and fully programmable ECU it should be faster/more powerful...but the turbo simply can't produce the numbers. The DBB version of the T67 will piss on the spool of the T04Z even more.

 

this is still not a valid test...read post 32 on page 3 of this thread.

 

the 2 cars are different. YES i know what you are saying does make sense Alex. but the tests were done on 2 different cars and one being FULLY built you would expect decent horses out of it. but the test needs to be done on 1 car with PROOF that the 2 turbos are the same. until now we only here that specs on cartridges and wheels sizes etc. yes that data LOOKS the same but thats ALL we know. obviously for some people that is enough conclusion. for others that is not enough conclusion.

[Alex]

T04Z Built engine, Built head, Aftermarket ECU, tuned by professionals.

vs. T67P on a Stock ECU + eManage Blue + stock engine...

 

I'd say that it's conclusive proof that even with all these advantages on the T04Z's side it's not good enough and if you read the thread I posted, they explain why. Ported shroud's always cost spool and power. Maybe if you delete this part it will be better...

 

But I think this disproves your original and misleading statements. The T04Z maybe very very pretty....but it's no better that a Precision T67....

[Guest Terry S]

.

 

 

 

 

 

these are asumptions you are making from YOUR experience. I am doing the same in MY experience, whats wrong with that? if you have the proof of difference then please post....

 

you are also constantly changing the garrett equivilents, whats with that? some confusion? or memory laps issues?

 

 

 

 

 

so terry, you seem to know (on the above first 3 posts some details in YOUR HONEST OPINION" the answers, so share it with all of us.....give me evidence that the garrett is just a re-badge. like i said before, if it IS then fine, i have my conclusions and you will have yours.

 

you dont have evidence to back your claims and neither do i. they are called PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AND PERSONAL OPINIONS

 

 

As I thought Bijal. You dont know, so please don't go making sweeping statements you cant back up. Maybe you should state in future that things are in your experience or opinion, rather than proven eh

yes the hks turbo by far is the best in the market. i have said this time and time again and proven it but some people seem to think its the same as the garret based versions which is not true and totally incorrect. certain threads have been proven and shut a few people up in the debate on hks turbos.

 

i agree 200%, hks turbos are the best, not because its hks but the design and technology gone into it is just amazing.

 

 

I have made no statements here. It is my opinion that HKS rebadge Garrett Turbo's with fancy housings. I gave you wheel size etc in the last thread to which I linked here.http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showpost.php?p=774237&postcount=126

 

Bijal it is you that made these statements, no one else. You clearly can't substaniate them as you purposefully avoid any direct question about them, so it's best I leave it here.

[Guest Bijal]

T04Z Built engine, Built head, Aftermarket ECU, tuned by professionals.

vs. T67P on a Stock ECU + eManage Blue + stock engine...

 

I'd say that it's conclusive proof that even with all these advantages on the T04Z's side it's not good enough and if you read the thread I posted, they explain why. Ported shroud's always cost spool and power. Maybe if you delete this part it will be better...

 

But I think this disproves your original and misleading statements. The T04Z maybe very very pretty....but it's no better that a Precision T67....

 

 

thats fine alex, thats a fair conclusion on your part. i have my opinions and conclusions and will stick to them until i see different.

 

that is also true that some compramise is to be had with anti surge housings for power. but then thats been manufactured for people who prefer low down quick spooling. as everyone always goes on about LAG being an issue. its hard to find a balance between the 2 compramises.

[Alex]

The T67 Non DBB out spooled the T04Z so the DBB version will outspool it by 300more RPM at least....

[Guest Bijal]

As I thought Bijal. You dont know, so please don't go making sweeping statements you cant back up. Maybe you should state in future that things are in your experience or opinion, rather than proven eh

 

 

 

I have made no statements here. It is my opinion that HKS rebadge Garrett Turbo's with fancy housings. I gave you wheel size etc in the last thread to which I linked here.http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showpost.php?p=774237&postcount=126

 

Bijal it is you that made these statements, no one else. You clearly can't substaniate them as you purposefully avoid any direct question about them, so it's best I leave it here.

 

i am not avoiding any questions. you are asking me questions that cannot be proven by ANYONE and not just myself. So i am asking you...if you have different conclusion (which you clearly do) then please provide proof of that too.

 

They WERE assumptions you are making from your knowledge or experiences. but it is no different to what i am saying about MY OWN experience and opinion.

 

YOU want to throw it out of context then thats fine. you DONT want to accept my opinion, then thats fine too. no big deal for me.

 

traders are always flamed on this board for not contributing enough on this board for help and advise. i was only posting a thread to share our project, this project is ours, money is put down by myself, of course i AM going to have my own opinions and theory. If you wish to question it then please do so with accepting the OPINION given back. no need to turn it upside down, you clearly have a bad habbit in doing that.

[RobSheffield]

ok, im wading in, somebody throw me a lifeline if i go under

 

What if i bought two carrots, one of which was reputedly 0.3% faster at growing and produced 0.4% more orangeness (pretty small advantages basically)

 

but the slower spooling and lower power (see what i did?) carrot cost half as much?

 

would you double the cost for only a possible few percent increase?

 

if they are both there or thereabouts, im damn sure id go for the slightly cheaper but equally good Carrots

 

and if Alexs data there is good (despite the cars being different, and i agree Bijal, tests should be in controlled conditions) then the Garrett may well have the edge

 

 

anyway, interesting reeading Bijal, plese update us (just please dont mention turbos )

[Chris Wilson]

What suspension set up are you going to run? Will it have a proper cage in it, and by whom?

[Alex]

Indeed Rob, that's my point here...if there is any advantage with the T04Z that has yet to be proved...does it warent the hefty price tag? IMO No.

 

But, it's not my money and if you want to pay double the price of a T67 DBB for the very pretty T04Z then it's your choice...my disagreement was with the "clearly better" aspect of it's description, which is clearly isn't.

[BURT]

Are there any drag based supras that have run a sub 8 second Quater mile using HKS Turbos????

[mkirby]

I know i'm going to get shot down now but in all honesty until about 6 months ago when i started going onto this board again i'd never heard of boost logic turbo kits or vortex etc and thats genuine!!

 

i know for a fact that outside the supra world there pretty much unknown or should i say new?

 

also how many supra's are running a sub 8 sec quarter in the world?? i'd hazard a guess only a couple so not really a comparison is it now!!

 

so lets stick with what we do know in OUR country!! whats the fasted supra in this country and what turbo do they run???????????

 

Mike

[BURT]

thats just my point... if the hks were that good then surley they would be used in drag racing

[mkirby]

thats just my point... if the hks were that good then surley they would be used in drag racing

 

i think your missing the pi55 take mate, whats the fastest supra in this country??

[mkirby]

oh and dont HKS hold the world record for a 4WD car in the 7's???