Guest Bijal Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 How come the stock ECU is 'clever' enough to manage timing adjustments on a single turbo conversion with an sAFC attached, but not clever enough to do that with any other unit? -Ian the stock ecu is that clever regardless if you go single or not. and if you have safc or not. you also have to remember here toyota spend millions in development, if a company is spending this much (and maybe more) you'd defo want the damn ecu to work so well. but the truth and reality of it is, that the stock ecu is quite a simple on/off unit and this feature is also fully availalbe on the AEM EMS and very easily setup so that whatever boost or throtttle your at, it runs "beutiful" a/f ratios and even timing but this is getting into a different field of mapping, in effect its not really mapping and i personaly dont prefer using this method. bijal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bijal Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 How do you map for 1.4bar of boost (or more) with an sAFC without 1.2bar going mad rich? Say your boost controller runs wastegate (0.9bar), 1.2bar, and 1.4bar. -Ian another very good point. with this type of problem it is best to map for higher or highest boost level you would want to achieve. so if you were aiming for 1.4bar of boost but you boost controller for daily driving you keep it at 1.2 bar then most likely the fueling will be ok. but if you say map the safc to run fueling for 1.4 bar and then you reduce the boost for daily driving down to 1.0bar it wont like it and the car will not run properly (obviously). and thats the compremeise with the fuel controller compared to an ems. and in this type of situation you have to remember that in most cases you are only on full boost if your foot is to the floor and in 2nd gear and above. so if your car is set to fuel with the safc to run well for 1.4bar then you have to just accept that becasue you wont hit 1.4bar of boost for normal crusing speeds or daily comuting for example. but when you boot it, you will hit 1.4bar. this method is safer than doing it the opposite spectrum, such as mapping the safc to 1.2bar and then trying to have the temptation to increase boost to 1.3 or 1.4 and worrying about fueling, remapping. good thing on the ems is that rpm specific mapping can be done on the dyno, the best method. bijal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 another very good point. with this type of problem it is best to map for higher or highest boost level you would want to achieve. so if you were aiming for 1.4bar of boost but you boost controller for daily driving you keep it at 1.2 bar then most likely the fueling will be ok. but if you say map the safc to run fueling for 1.4 bar and then you reduce the boost for daily driving down to 1.0bar it wont like it and the car will not run properly (obviously). and thats the compremeise with the fuel controller compared to an ems. and in this type of situation you have to remember that in most cases you are only on full boost if your foot is to the floor and in 2nd gear and above. so if your car is set to fuel with the safc to run well for 1.4bar then you have to just accept that becasue you wont hit 1.4bar of boost for normal crusing speeds or daily comuting for example. but when you boot it, you will hit 1.4bar. this method is safer than doing it the opposite spectrum, such as mapping the safc to 1.2bar and then trying to have the temptation to increase boost to 1.3 or 1.4 and worrying about fueling, remapping. good thing on the ems is that rpm specific mapping can be done on the dyno, the best method. bijal Depends on the setup up too, Single or Twins. With a single you can find the fuel curve for 1bar and 1.4bar are very similar (depedant on turbo). If your mapped for 1.2bar and make a decission one day you want to run 1.4bar, then thats were the added benefit of the Fuel pressure comes in, bump it up and take it a few runs wuth the wideband until you get it reasonable. then drop it back to were it was for 1.2bar - much quicker than remapping for 1.4bar. But, the safcII has 2 maps for high boost. So, if people set the second for thier upper most boost goal - and can live with that, then i cant see the problem? Tuning with an SAFC (like all piggybacks) does have it limitations, but as pointed out in this thread by Clarkey etc etc, the benefits definately out weigh them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 Does the Neo datalog ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Think its the same as the SAFCII Clarkey in that you can record and playback through the unit just, we just use the Auxbox on the LM1. Think il have a nosey at the Apexi site and see if theres a user manual up for it yet :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bijal Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Depends on the setup up too, Single or Twins. With a single you can find the fuel curve for 1bar and 1.4bar are very similar (depedant on turbo). If your mapped for 1.2bar and make a decission one day you want to run 1.4bar, then thats were the added benefit of the Fuel pressure comes in, bump it up and take it a few runs wuth the wideband until you get it reasonable. then drop it back to were it was for 1.2bar - much quicker than remapping for 1.4bar. But, the safcII has 2 maps for high boost. So, if people set the second for thier upper most boost goal - and can live with that, then i cant see the problem? Tuning with an SAFC (like all piggybacks) does have it limitations, but as pointed out in this thread by Clarkey etc etc, the benefits definately out weigh them. just upping the fuel pressure in order to compensate additonal boost - this method is very crude. upping the fuel pressure and presuming you can run higher boost is a risk in itself no different to just upping the boost blindly without adding fuel accurately with the fuel controller. for someone who know what they are doing can "TRY" this method with a wide band, but certainly wouldnt recomend it for someone quite novice, even with a wideband. its best to just be on the safe side and map the car ONCE with the higher boost levels and reduce boost a little for when your mrs drives it better to be overly safe than taking a risk if you dont know what your doing. the other thing to remember is....there is such thing as running too much fuel pressure, although i have seen this it is very rare. bijal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 its best to just be on the safe side and map the car ONCE with the higher boost levels and reduce boost a little for when your mrs drives it I think, this is where the E-Manage comes into it's own. When my EM was being mapped - IIRC - we did some WOT runs @ 1 Bar. WOT runs @ 1.35 Bar ... and then runs at 0.3 - 0.5 Bar (maybe) at medium throttle. From what little, I understand of the EM - anything inbetween those thresholds .. the map takes care of. So, driving around at medium throttle @ 0.4 boost would be taken care of. I'm sure someone else can explain - what I'm trying to say, in more technical and practical terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 This link is interesting and quite informative for SAFC-2 setup http://members.cox.net/precisionimage/precisionimage/SAFC.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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