Clarkey Posted June 30, 2006 Author Share Posted June 30, 2006 Now that sounds really good... Whats the difference in cost?? Is it harder to setup? I think if I had a T61 DBB instead of just a T61 .. from what I know - it wouldn't have made the mapping job harder. Of course, a T61 map is going to be abit different to a T61 DBB map. But - I think my 550's would comprise me on a T61 DBB. As for cost ... not a clue. You'll have to ask mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupra Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 if you like this sort of thread then wait toward this weekend. i'll be posting our newest project with pics and complete tuning tips and how toos etc for the forum board to see. Where abouts are you guys based ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I wouldn't expect to pay no more than £200. The reason is - that the SAFC-2 is pretty easy to understand. It's not as complicated as the EM, EMU etc. All it would get used for would be adjusting the voltage .. for trimming fuel in % across user-defined RPM points. The S-iTC .. you'd use some det can's and then twiddle 4 or 5 push-out knobs .. ... which correspond to RPM points .. when the engine is under load. . You may well be right mate Bijal How long with Road and Dyno do you reckon to do this set-up mate? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bijal Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 You may well be right mate Bijal How long with Road and Dyno do you reckon to do this set-up mate? Cheers pm me for prices dude. let me know what management you will want tuning and i'll price it up for ya. for safc it wont cost much. hks units we dont have the access keys to and dont tune them. aem ems - no problem regardless if you want it tuning or not, if your not sure or need help paul, i'm always a phone call away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I think if I had a T61 DBB instead of just a T61 .. from what I know - it wouldn't have made the mapping job harder. Of course, a T61 map is going to be abit different to a T61 DBB map. But - I think my 550's would comprise me on a T61 DBB. As for cost ... not a clue. You'll have to ask mate. Wicked, thanks for that. I am looking at 650's, maybe the t61dbb would be a better decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 pm me for prices dude. let me know what management you will want tuning and i'll price it up for ya. for safc it wont cost much. hks units we dont have the access keys to and dont tune them. aem ems - no problem regardless if you want it tuning or not, if your not sure or need help paul, i'm always a phone call away Thanks Bijal Will give you a shout next week Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Excellent write up Clarkey. The new SAFC neo looks a great buy too, +/- 50% on the fueling, and has the same user definable 16 point rpm settings (lo and Hi) which is handy as most poeple dont tune below the 3K mark anyway, which leaves plenty of scope. I dont know if it also has the same A and B maps for both Hi and Lo settings as the SAFC2 did which was handy when tuning for 2 different Hi boost settings. I defo like using the SAFC though, very easy to use and get the hang off, and great even for things such as raising Fuel cut on KV based systems. Though i definately recommend trying to get your hands on an ITC, especially if you need to pull any large numbers if running bigger injectors to compensate for the effects on ignition timing. Theres also a great Mod where instead of using your TPS, you can use the MAP sesnor (same 0-5v) as input thus letting you tune fuel via boost/rpm instead of throttle. Dont know if anyone has tried this on the Supra yet though. Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted June 30, 2006 Author Share Posted June 30, 2006 The new SAFC neo looks a great buy too, +/- 50% on the fueling, Ah, didn't know about that kit. What kind of price would that be ? It would be interesting to see a dyno chart for the same car .. one with SAFC-2 & the other Neo. The AFR curves should be abit smoother and more accurate on the Neo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted June 30, 2006 Author Share Posted June 30, 2006 Theres also a great Mod where instead of using your TPS, you can use the MAP sesnor (same 0-5v) as input thus letting you tune fuel via boost/rpm instead of throttle. Dont know if anyone has tried this on the Supra yet though. Marty Yeah, I remember reading about that Mod .. on some other forum. It wasn't mkiv-owners, this one, supra-forums. It was another generic car club forum. It was basically that the SAFC-2 would read the boost sensor .. I think. You've explained better than I I remember reading the thread - and he tried it out. And on his setup it didn't work that well. Unfortunately - no body else in the thread had his setup .. so, couldn't tell if the problem was: a) The Mod b) His car - something else. Let me look through my browser history .. maybe it'll still be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Seem to be going for around the £220 + P&P on ebay, so think Nic could probably match that. They arnt out that long, but noticed they also incorporate the VTECH function of the VAFC which could be handy for switching the likes of water/meth or Nitrous via a map Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Yeah, I remember reading about that Mod .. on some other forum. It wasn't mkiv-owners, this one, supra-forums. It was another generic car club forum. It was basically that the SAFC-2 would read the boost sensor .. I think. You've explained better than I I remember reading the thread - and he tried it out. And on his setup it didn't work that well. Unfortunately - no body else in the thread had his setup .. so, couldn't tell if the problem was: a) The Mod b) His car - something else. Let me look through my browser history .. maybe it'll still be there. Its been run Sucessfully on Talon's and 3sgte's clarkey.....do a google for safc boost mod, should throw it up. I can remember Robert Pina doing it years ago on the 1st blue safc, so no doubt its been cracked by now Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted June 30, 2006 Author Share Posted June 30, 2006 Ah right. Wasn't aware. Must've been his car then. Perhaps something electrical interfereing somewhere. I dunno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted June 30, 2006 Author Share Posted June 30, 2006 Sorry, trying to find that link out of 2 weeks of browse history .. is like a needle in a haystack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 this makes a good read for understanding it... http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/foolafc.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted June 30, 2006 Author Share Posted June 30, 2006 this makes a good read for understanding it... http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/foolafc.html Very interesting read! Amidst the acronynms .. Did I understand right that: The boost % points (RPM points) are user defined .. and boost is measured as a %. So, at x boost % .. it's trim fuel y %. Clever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted June 30, 2006 Author Share Posted June 30, 2006 It be interesting if Paul Mac.. who has a SAFC-2 could try this on his setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 il be testing a Neo out next month, may test in on a 2jzgte and see how well it works using the boost Mod. Also wanna look at the Vtec function to see how easy it is to activate a relay via the vtec map which would be handy for water/meth triggering and depending on how complex it is, may be abble to do progressive controlling of NOS :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 It be interesting if Paul Mac.. who has a SAFC-2 could try this on his setup. interesting reading Clarkey, but i'me afraid not a chance on the above mate, SAFC is password protected by Thor to keep spanner monkeys like me making an arse out of it lol and i havn't got a wideband, for info safc and itc cost £140 to map at Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bijal Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Thanks Bijal Will give you a shout next week Cheers anytime. bijal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bijal Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Theres also a great Mod where instead of using your TPS, you can use the MAP sesnor (same 0-5v) as input thus letting you tune fuel via boost/rpm instead of throttle. Dont know if anyone has tried this on the Supra yet though. Marty the aem has a similar feature to this but its not always advised to use this unless you know how to rig in the safety features within the software. it can be a good tool and also a bad one at the same token. bijal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 yes, this is obvious and more obvious trimming on larger injectors. but i am trying to point out methods of ways of tuning the safc2 to suit your driving style if its not given to a mapper. good thing for the end user is that there is no need to worry about timing maps withthe safc2 becasue the stock ecu is clever enough to do this for ya where as on an e-manage or stand alone ems you'd need det cans, addtional external equipment to map the car on fuel and ignition etc. either way, its very good learning for anyone interested in this field. bijal Interesting assertations there and elsewhere in this thread. A couple of questions: What happens if the driver doesn't behave the way he 'should', or say the car is driven by someone with a different style? How come the stock ECU is 'clever' enough to manage timing adjustments on a single turbo conversion with an sAFC attached, but not clever enough to do that with any other unit? How do you map for 1.4bar of boost (or more) with an sAFC without 1.2bar going mad rich? Say your boost controller runs wastegate (0.9bar), 1.2bar, and 1.4bar. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 How do you map for 1.4bar of boost (or more) with an sAFC without 1.2bar going mad rich? Say your boost controller runs wastegate (0.9bar), 1.2bar, and 1.4bar. -Ian That's true Ian. I had the same problem - could get it fine for WOT - 1 Bar. But on moderate boost - it ran overly rich. It's compromise ... because .. your limited on - RPM points, and choosing between mapping (with the mod installed and working) @ Throttle OR @ Boost But not both. I guess - because of the 12 point map - you have to compromise AFR's @ RPM points. That was my issue. If I had maybe 20 rpm points - I think I could've done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 interesting reading Clarkey, but i'me afraid not a chance on the above mate, SAFC is password protected by Thor to keep spanner monkeys like me making an arse out of it lol and i havn't got a wideband, for info safc and itc cost £140 to map at Thor Ah that's shame. But Paul, If you can pick up an SAFC-2 at a total bargain ..... might be worth picking it up .. and then swap the SAFC-2's over. Then map it too boost. Would be interesting to find out ... it may make mapping on a SAFC-2 more accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bijal Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 What happens if the driver doesn't behave the way he 'should', or say the car is driven by someone with a different style? -Ian good point ian, this is where the mapper should always sit down with their client and discuss their aims and goals. in most cases they want the car to be "daily driven" and user friendly so therefore ONLY the mapper would be able to work around that question. to be honest, in MOST situations the mapper would set the a/f ratios to set target before boost and also after boost, both on low throttle AND high throttle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 Has anyone got a write-up / review of the Neo ? Wouldn't mind having a ganders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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