Clarkey Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Not out to start to And hopefully not a - I did a search .. honest! The reason for this thread .. is in relation information in other threads on this subject .. I personally think, don't quite answer a basic question. The threads specify lot of useful technical information .. but what I think they lack is a description of perhaps - what the general driving experience is .. with both systems. That what I was looking for ... technical information is very good - I but wanted more of an practical explanation. Although I didn't find one - I can now comment. I found with the SAFC-2, S-iTC, FCD combo - to be doo-able as a temporary setup. And providing you don't go silly with the car - as it isn't setup for fun. Infact - probably a good idea to disconnect the FCD. I found the SAFC-2 worked a treat for WOT runs. I could get a stable 11.5 - 11.9 .. @ 1 bar. 36psi fuel pressure. And trimming -24% fuel. However, the SAFC-2 isn't aware of boost .. so when I was cruising in 5th or 6th .. and I gently put my foot down boost would climb faster than RPM. This caused the car to run lean - so I had to compensate by riching the mixture at the low end of the RPM. The 4000k is the tricky part .. I could not get the AFR below 12.4 until 3700. But on closed loop it was normal. It was the throttle % on the SAFC-2 .. not setting it too high & not setting it too low. Not an expert on the SAFC-2 - but did my best. Would also like to add - I've never driven a single car that's setup on RR setup with the SAFC. But because of the ease of tuning the SAFC-2 .. there isn't much skill involved. It's just a question of trimming fuel at certain RPM. Job for 2 people. So, putting it on the RR's - seemed abit of waste of money ... as would've likely fine-tuned the SAFC-2 setup & done the timing with det-cans. I also found general running of the SAFC-2 .. did make my car sound abit of tune .. On the fueling side. At idle - it would occassionally get confused .. but would settle. Now, the S-iTC .. I never really got a chance to use. As you need a pair of det cans. Which I don't have .. and don't know what is a normal sound from a bad sound. The SAFC-2 is limited bit of kit .. but it's an easy to setup for a imho a temporary fix. Just to make the car safe - to drive it around. (Not hammer it all the time). The SAFC-2 did the job ok to map safe for 1 Bar ... which is quick enough I set the SAFC-2 for 1 bar because I wanted to save the 12 RPM points for just before 4k transition point .. and after. What's good about the SAFC-2 .. is it's simplicity to use for £120 second hand. You can make your fuelling safe easily with a AFR gauge. Just bear in mind - it's not setup and go easy. Till necessary funds permit. I'm not slating the SAFC-2 or my previous setup ... the car was runnable no problem .. with the occassional sprint to 1 bar. But that was it. I was aware of the limitation to the SAFC-2 .. and I didn't want to push my luck .. and I knew it was going to be replaced so, didn't bother with a RR. The E-Manage ... I found made the car sound so much more sweeter! AFR's are correct all the way up the RPM corresponding to boost pressure. My ignition timing has been adjusted with a set of det-cans. My idle bounces between 14.5 - 15.4 ... and on a cold start my car doesn't run overly rich anymore. The car runs more like a stock car now. The E-Manage does everything in 1 box. Fuelling, timing, fuel cut control .. (and no doubt many more handy features) Recommened E-Manage mapping competance is available ... which if selling the SAFC-2, S-iTC & FCD .. funds the mapping cost. Yes - the Emanage + all sensors & harnesses + fitting .. costs abit more money .. .. but - I think the ends justify the means. NOTE: The above is just simply from my personal knowledge & experience. Obviously someone with more experience, knowledge and mapping skill - would get better results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Very well written Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistonbroke Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Whoooooooooosh wow, what was that?, this post just flew way over my head, Hope the car is running how you want it mate. I need to do some reading up on this single lark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupra Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Glad you found the E-manage to be a good set up Clarkey, i'll be going for an ultimate when i go single. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Good post and reassuring to hear What Emanage did you go for, presumably the Ultimate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted June 29, 2006 Author Share Posted June 29, 2006 What Emanage did you go for, presumably the Ultimate? No, went for the blue. The features of the Ultimate isn't necessary for my setup. My duty cycle at 1 bar is 70% .. so for spirited runs I could run 1.35 bar at 95% duty. Which is right on the limit for 550's @ 40psi fuel pressure. So, to save on the duty cycle .. I'm just going to lower the boost so the duty cycle is 90% .. and if my maths is right that's just a nats under 1.3 bar. And to be honest - knowing the kind of driver that I am .. I know I'll only use that magic 1.3 bar setting .. if I'm getting beat in decent play with another decent car. For the odd spirited run. I'm not going to be at 1.3 bar all the time ... infact my ebc will no doubt stay at 1 bar for quite awhile. As that's fairly quick anyway. And to be honest - I didn't feel much difference between 1.3 bar & 1.4 bar .. during mapping. I could increase the fuel pressure - extending the duty cycle of the 550's - but that would require a remap of the EM. Which I'll only do if I decide to add 650's or an IC etc. At the moment, I'm enjoying the driveability of the car. The sensible side of me is saying "You don't need to make it faster." and to be honest .. I don't. I think - from a performance spec .. that's my car finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted June 29, 2006 Author Share Posted June 29, 2006 Just wanted to add .. neither am I proving/disproving that you can or can't run 1.4 bar on 550 injectors. You would increase your fuel pressure. By how much - I don't know. Mine is running 4psi over stock. Perhaps another 2psi would extend my duty cycle enough ... But again - I guess that would require another re-map. Which I won't do .. unless if I have to replace the IC at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 No, went for the blue. The features of the Ultimate isn't necessary for my setup Thats good to hear. Its what I have waiting to go in (similar setup) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted June 29, 2006 Author Share Posted June 29, 2006 Ah right. What injectors are you putting in ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 650's nothing OTT planned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted June 29, 2006 Author Share Posted June 29, 2006 on a T61 or it's bigger brother ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Not 100% sure yet, but most likely its bigger DBB brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Thanks for the write up Clarkey. Where do you put the screen for the E-Manage? I never fancied having a mini lCD screen stuck on top of the dash... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted June 30, 2006 Author Share Posted June 30, 2006 Where do you put the screen for the E-Manage? I never fancied having a mini lCD screen stuck on top of the dash... I don't have the profec ... to be honest - I wouldn't use the profec and all it's features. It would only get used as an eBC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzaGSi Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Emanage blue is my next uprade, Thanks for the writeup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Not 100% sure yet, but most likely its bigger DBB brother What is the DBB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 What is the DBB? Dual ball bearing me thinks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted June 30, 2006 Author Share Posted June 30, 2006 Indeed. Faster spool up. No additional power - but reduces your lag-time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Indeed. Faster spool up. No additional power - but reduces your lag-time. Niceeee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Indeed. Faster spool up. No additional power - but reduces your lag-time. Now that sounds really good... Whats the difference in cost?? Is it harder to setup? I was looking at the T61, but the DBB sounds to be a little better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 On the original subject I am going through the same kind of quandry... Either S-AFC / ITC / 550 Injectors / 256&264 Cams / Resistor Pack set up Or go with the F-Con S / 650 injectors / 256&264 Cams The reason I would prefer the latter is really as I am not convinced of the mappability of the EMU as yet - and in case I want to go bigger etc I can keep the F-Con S or upgrade to an F-Con Pro with the same harness etc Also the S-AFC will not control 650 injectors (or to their max) and I dont want to chop looms around etc with a resistor pack (if can be helped) Decisions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 The EMU is proven on a J-spec...it does all that a piggyback needs to do. Ian's not had a good crack at a UK yet. As for the DBB T 67...it's still slower to spool than a normal 61...but it does seem to be the hot ticket. On an autobox I think the 61 is a better bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bijal Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 On the original subject I am going through the same kind of quandry... Either S-AFC / ITC / 550 Injectors / 256&264 Cams / Resistor Pack set up Or go with the F-Con S / 650 injectors / 256&264 Cams The reason I would prefer the latter is really as I am not convinced of the mappability of the EMU as yet - and in case I want to go bigger etc I can keep the F-Con S or upgrade to an F-Con Pro with the same harness etc Also the S-AFC will not control 650 injectors (or to their max) and I dont want to chop looms around etc with a resistor pack (if can be helped) Decisions... paul, consdier this, the cost of having the f con units mapped is not cheap. so for long term goals and plans its expensive. and if you used the safc with 650,720 or 750 even, it would be fine. but remember, the safc can only control +25 or -25% of fuel. the safc 2 can go up to +50 or -50%, giving greater control on larger injectors and complecated setups. good luck with whichever way you decide though bijal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 paul, consdier this, the cost of having the f con units mapped is not cheap. so for long term goals and plans its expensive. and if you used the safc with 650,720 or 750 even, it would be fine. but remember, the safc can only control +25 or -25% of fuel. the safc 2 can go up to +50 or -50%, giving greater control on larger injectors and complecated setups. good luck with whichever way you decide though bijal I would not use a SAFC2 on anything bigger than 650cc. The SAFC2 just has extra load sites over the SAFC from memory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 but remember, the safc can only control +25 or -25% of fuel. the safc 2 can go up to +50 or -50%, giving greater control on larger injectors and complecated setups. Hmmm, I had an SAFC on my hybrid setup and it went +/-50% It's the load sites that are different - SAFC has 8 rpm sites, the SAFC2 has 12 (woooo, count 'em folks ) The AFC can't compensate for different loads in different gears. Makes it a nightmare with a single turbo conversion, and the bigger the injectors the bigger the headache. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.