Blitz twin turbo installation

[jakewebster]

First Class mate, made a great read, excellent job you have done.

 

Would give me alot more confidence to try mtself one day!

 

Keep us posted with how the mapping goes and how she drives!

Well done that man!

[Bobbeh]

What everyone else has said, really looking forward to seeing what this setup delivers, I hope it brings a big smile to your face. Your install looks so tidy too. and those UK headlights really are night/day different from your old ones! Good choice.

[joeblitz]

hi tony

thanks for the chat today ,your almost there ,you will have no problems with a cusco strut brace i have one fitted , talked about a balance pipe between the manfolds can't go there as my pipe work is in the way ..... as for the blitz kit ... well what can i say if you want some thing unique this is the one ... ill post some pictures in the next few days to show you why no two kits are the same fitted ... in the past blitz uk had no info on the so called kit and could not get info out of jap ... you have to remember this kit was designed in mind for a performance specalist .... now blitz uk is with fensport there is more info and help available ... well done to tony and his write up it just goes to show they are a few home specalists willing to push the boundries ......

[TLicense]

Well it's just been a couple of interesting, if nothing else, days.

 

Dan from Jikan was due to come and map the car on Wednesday, so I knew I had to sort out any little issues and get the car ready for then (fluid change and fit the D.V.) and also to try and get the fuel pumps to run off of the ECU (which I had yet to do).

 

I couldn't get the fuel pumps to run directly from the ECU. To be honest I think it's down to rather small stock wire to the ECU, that the AEM uses to ground the relays. But anyway, the only way I can currently get the pumps running is a rather dodgy by-pass of the whole ECU and just ground them manually. This means that once grounded, they'll run indefinitely and independant of the Ignition being on or off. Not good.

However, once I'd managed to get these running on Tuesday, it highlighted a fuel leak where the feed line plumbed into the fuel hanger. ARGGGHH!!!!

It turned out that the copper washers I'd used were a load of rubbish, so I made some myself out of some soft aluminium we were wrongly delivered at work. Fuel leak sorted. However, it meant that I had to put Dan off for a day.

 

So on to last night. 6 o'clock Dan arrives. It's my first meeting with Dan, but he instantly put me at ease with his professional manner. So we try to get the car started, with a little help from a jump-start from my '87 Polo. She's got compression, but not catching. So we whipped the plugs out, and gave them a clean up with a mini blow torch. Slot them back in and Dan get's her running on the 3rd turn of the starter! Fantastic!!

Ah but hold on, she's blowing like a barstard.

So it's going to be a call back to the fabricators first thing, and probably a week or so with them whilst they sort that out. Doh!

However once that's done it'll be off to Dan's to get final mapped.

So very close.......

[JamieP]

Excellent, Knows his stuff Dan;)

[Ian C]

Ooh that manifold. Shame to cover it up with turbos Except the two turbos are just as sexy

 

-Ian

[TLicense]

OK just a quick update.

As mentioned Dan came over and got the car running. The only downside was that there was a problem with the fuel pump not quite working as it should, and the exhaust was blowing.

I was going to take the car to the fabricators to get the exhaust sorted on Monday, but when I went to start the car on the Friday, it turned and turned but never caught.

Hmmmm, so I called Dan, who was here in literally 20 minutes if that. He soon spotted the problem, in that the coil drivers on my ECU seem to be playing up. However he did get it running, but suggested that once the car is mapped I sent my ECU off to get repaired.

So I left it over the weekend, with the intention of driving to the fabbys on Monday morning. Only Monday morning, the car is turning again but not catching. ARGGHGHGH!!!!

So after a call to Dan, I've now sent my ECU off to him, and he'll send it off to get repaired. Hopefully it should be back in a week.

Oh well, at least that gives me time to admire my new wheels.

[TLicense]

Just a bit more of an update....

 

Whilst fitting my wheels I noticed that the pipe on the backbox of the exhaust (mild steel HKS superdragger) was totally rotten. After a quick call to Gaz at Envy, I've ordered up a HKS hi-power silent job. Keeping in with the "sleeper" thing.

Should get that fitted sometime next week. Then it's booked in with Turbofit to get the blowing manifold sorted, and to be MOT'd on the 14th. Hopefully I can get Dan to stick it on the rolling road and do the final map on the 15th.

Soooo close now.....Can't wait!

[joeblitz]

Hi Tony

Wastegates Come With Soft Springs As Std From Blitz If Supplied With Pro Kit ......... Comfirmed Today From Blitz ...

[TLicense]

Ah! Nice one mate.

 

Cheers.

[Guest rodeo_v8]

Brilliant work mate

[Nick]

Almost there, you must be chomping at the bit now

[TLicense]

Righto'

 

Here's the latest news.....

 

SHE'S RUNNING!!!

 

It's been a bit of a week to get it to this point, but it's slowly getting there.

 

So last Monday, I took the car to turbofit where the car was MOT'd and the exhaust was put on. It was nice to meet Greg and his crew, and also Jamie P, who has quite clearly lost the plot! Good to meet you Jamie.

 

So with that done, on Tuesday I took my car over to Marlin motors for Dan Turner to map. That's where the fun begins.

He was struggling a bit as every now and then the car would run rich. Like mad rich. He thought he'd sorted it after changing a parameter in the calibration, and it seemed to clear it up quite a bit, but there was just the occasional misfire that he put down to either coil packs or plugs.

Now earlier I mentioned that I wound the wastegate springs all the way out, to make them as soft as possible. The problem being that I wasn't sure if they would open at 1psi, 10psi, 50psi or whatever, so winding them all the way out was as good as it was going to get in the safety stakes. The problem is, that this equates to 0.5bar of boost. (I had tested them at work, and thought it was more like 1.2 bar, obviously something wrong with how I tested them!)

The other problem is that they're only making that 0.5bar boost at 5000rpm. Not great.

So just as I'm getting boost, my camshafts are running out of grunt.

So anyway, with only 0.5 bar boost, I'm making 340bhp, and 300lb/ft torque (400Nm). Not exactly pub bragging rights, but then hey it's only 0.5bar boost (less than stock).

So that was pretty much as far as we could get on the dyno, untill I either fitted a boost controller to raise the boost (and possibly hold the wastegates shut in order to make boost earlier) or fit some camshafts to enable the engine to breath at higher RPM's. Here's a couple of shots of the dyno plot:-

 

 

 

On the way home though, the misfire got worse and worse, and ended up being, what I would describe as REALLY bad.

I figured it was coil packs or plugs, so decided to check how many I would need (in the case of coil packs) and I would determine this by turning off each feed to the coil packs individually using the AEM, and see which cylinders didn't make a difference when turned off. Turns out just no. 4 was causing the problems. Cool.

 

So to see if it was plugs or coil packs, I swapped the coil pack on no.4 with the one on no.2. I then swapped the plugs from no.4 to the plug on no.3. Now All I had to do was re-do the "turning coils off" test as before and see if either no.2 or no.3 was causing the problems. Strangely enough, it was still no.4. OK so that meant that the plugs and coil packs were OK.

 

So I thought, maybe it's just not getting any spark, so plugged a plg into a coil pack and held the plugs against the head to see if would spark with the car being turned over. Yep that seemed to work OK. So the ignition's fine, so what else could it be?

 

So worse things first, I checked the compression. Perhaps there was a burnt valve or something and was getting no compression. Nope, all came in within 20psi of each other.

 

So next fuelling. I then checked that injector no.4 was getting +12V feed, and had continuity to the resistor pack, and then onto the ECU. +12V, check. Continuity to resistor pack, no check! AHA!! Found it!

 

So I then went through checking all of the connections. Turns out the o'so expensive Deutsch Autosport connector that I showed how to build up, had a dodgy connector! I checked all the crimps I'd done, figuring I'd fecked it up somehow. All OK, it must be one of the actual pin-socket interactions. By this time I was fed up with it, so just cut the thing off, and soldered all the wires together. Started the car, and No misfire! Result!

However, the problem was that it was now running pig rich. I think the connector was limiting the injectors somehow when it had been mapped, and now that they had good connections, they were giving it full beans and it was running hellish rich.

 

So after another trip to Dan's on Thursday evening, leaving the car with him so that he could sort the cold start, he would then lean the map out and get it running sweet. Which to be fair to him, he has done. The drive, well, the only way I can describe it it as stock. Light throttle is just soooo smooth. A real night and day difference to how it was after Leon at JPS mapped it originally. No clunks when lifting off or applying throttle. Absolutely fantastic. Am well pleased with it. Cheers Dan.

 

So now it's on to making some decent boost at a decent RPM. Now here Dan and I's opinions divulge a little. He seems to think that due to the size of the turbo's, it's just never going to have enough mass flow of exhaust to getting the turbo's spinning any earlier, whereas I'm pretty sure that they'll spin up early, but the very weak wastegate spring setting is allowing the wastegate to slowly open up as the boost is made.

The reason why I think this is shown below. The top trace is boost, the 2nd revs, and the third throttle position. (Sorry for the rather small detail)

It starts to make boost (although not positive boost) and then at about 2000rpm odd, as soon as it becomes positive boost though, it plateau's off and then appears to make boost very slowly untill 5000rpm.

Now my arguement is that it's making the initial boost very quickly, whilst the wastegates are being sucked closed effectively. But as soon as any pressure is being applied to the springs, the rate of turbo speed acceleration (and consequently boost increase) suddenly drops.

If the problem was lack of mass flow then the boost curve would be really lazy all the way from the get-go.

 

So anyway, I've got a way of proving this. Well there's three ways of proving it. The first, I'm not sure if I'm going to do, which is to simply disconnect the wastegate feed and give it a hoon keeping a close eye on the boost to lift off if it gets above 1 bar.

Not too keen on that, as it relies on my less than fighter pilot reactions.

The second is to wind the pre-load on the springs back in. I'm also not keen on this, as if I wind it in too much, again I' could end up making lots of boost.

The third, and the one I'm going with, is to hook up a boost controller to the AEM. I'll tee off of the lines that are going to the front of the wastegate, join both them both together, and then have a single feed to a wastegate, which I'll then split again and run to the back face of the wastegate.

This way the pressure on the front of the wastegate, forcing it open will be reacted against the feed to the back of the wastegate. Then when the boost reaches 1.2bar, I can then close the boost solenoid via the AEM, and let the wastegates open. Sorted.

So anyway, I've ordered up all the lines required (more plumbing ) which should be here tomorrow, but unfortunately I'll not be able to fit it until 2 weeks time. Oh well, at least that gives me a bit of time to get used to driving a Supe as opposed to my Polo loan car.

 

So very nearly there now.

[JamieP]

Getting there mate and nice meeting you monday, hoping you sort decent spool:)

[TLicense]

I'm positive that it's the cause of the problem.

I recon 1.5 bar by 3000-3200rpm looking at the slope of the boost curve.

[JamieP]

I'm positive that it's the cause of the problem.

I recon 1.5 bar by 3000-3200rpm looking at the slope of the boost curve.

 

 

 

That will be amazing to drive if it does:cool:

[Wez]

Great to see it coming together Tony.

 

Dawes devices are great for helping spool if you want an easy fix to hold of pressure off the wastegate. I use a similar setup on mine and my boost graph from SRR shows its working.

 

Boost Graph

 

[Wez]

Any updates, you had chance to do anymore mapping yet?

[TLicense]

Not really.

 

I did try disconnecting the wastegate lines, and fair doo's to Dan, he was right. It still didn't produce boost any sooner.

 

So I've orderd some HKS 264in/exh cams which should hopefully be here sometime this week, which I'll slot in at the weekend, and I'm also plumbing up and wiring in the boost controller. The car is going to Dan's a week tomorrow, possibly for a couple of days to get things like cold starts and idle sorted, and I'll see if he also has the time to map it up to 1.5bar (if it will make that!)

So it's a bit of a case of wait and see for this week. Quite excited about it all though

[dandan]

Any more progress Tony? All sorted yet?

[TLicense]

Not really.

I've got a peculiar issue where the car only wants to idle at 13:1 at absolute leanest. If I try to lean it out any more than that it starts to miss.

I have also found that where the downpipe from the front turbo slots into the downpipe that connects to the rest of the exhaust system is blowing. I'm hoping that this is the reason for the strange AFR's.

 

I'm still waiting on the camshafts, which should be here in a couple of weeks or so.

 

Other than that, it's been over to Dan's to clean the map up a little, but not much more than that.

[madmunky]

Just been sitting reading all this for the last 2 1/2hours! OMG wicked thread, dont think ill be doing anything like this anytime soon.

 

Hope you get all the problems sorted and look forward to seeing some vidz of it in action

[joeblitz]

hows the form , any news .... got my turbos and injectors finished last week and upgraded my ecu with greddy emanage ultimate .... long process .... started the car for the first time in 3 months ...sounded sweet ....upgrading fuel pump today to find right pump only put together wrong so made shit off it trying to fix problem ..... so off the road for another week ...... next problem will be find some one to programme my emanage

[TLicense]

Just a bit of an update on all this....

 

Well I think I've discovered why I have a lack of boost/lazy spool.

I contacted Blitz and asked them what the score was, and it turns out that I basically have the wrong turbo's!

 

I've been sold the kit, which contained the 8.11 (0.72 AR) turbine housings. These turbo's were never intended to go onto a Supra, and the correct ones are the 6.11 (0.55 AR) turbine housings. The 8.11's would suit a 4 litre engine, so I'm basically not making enough exhaust gas to get them spinning.

 

To sort this out, my first step is to fit the 264 cams which will be arriving early on this week (Many thanks to Nic).

This will basically increase the exhaust gas flow by an amount. I'm doubtful that it will be enough, but I'll see how I get on.

 

I'm also trying to source the correct 6.11 turbine housing from KKK. This is obviously the ideal solution as it will correctly size the m to the amount of exhaust flow I'll be generating. With the addition of the 264 camshafts, it should actually spool pretty well.

 

So that's that little saga hopefully on it's way to be sorted.

 

I've now put a few thousand miles on the kit now, and in terms of reliability I would say it's OK. There's a few niggles that I need to sort.

1) Fuel leak. I seem to be leaking fuel vapour from somewhere. I think it's from the tank/fuel hanger seal. I've recently put some flourescent fuel dye into the tank which will enable me to see where it's leaking from. I've every hose joint and they're all clean, which pretty much only leaves the possibility that it's leaking directly from the tank somewhere.

2) Oil leak. I've got a small oil leak from 2 places. The connection of the oil drain to the no.2 turbo, and also the connection of the no.2 turbo oil drain to the block. I think it's actually seeping through the swivel part of the aeroquip fitting. It's not particularly bad though, but I have noticed it and I need to sort it.

3) Mapping. Yep that old chestnut! Basically, I'm struggling to get my AFR's lean enough at idle. If I lean it out, beyond 12:1 then the car stumbles. This may be a case of just needing some more mapping time, or better control of the injectors, or something more sinister. (Poor injector spray pattern for example). Also my map is pretty bloody rich all over, but I've been leaning that out bit by bit. In fact I've increased my fuel consumption over the course of a week by about 30% by doing this.

 

Other than that, it's all going pretty well. Will keep you all updated on the turbine housings....

[dandan]

That's a bit of bad luck on the turbos mate - hope you can find the smaller housing somewhere..

 

Do you know what your injector pulsewidths are at idle and how small a pulsewidth the AEM can kick out. With poor injector control (unlikely with the AEM) and sluggish lazy injectors you can end up idling on the opening and closing time so trying to decrease fuelling any more simply will not work. I think you'd need some BIG lazy old injectors for this to be the case though.