GordonT Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Looking for a little help here, If ive been for a bit of a run in the car I get a rattle sound when the car is put into neutral, This seems to go away if i press the clutch fully in, and comes back once i let the clutch out again. I can also feel it through the gear stick.... Is my clutch on the way out ????? although it doesnt seem to be slipping, no burning smell or anything. Infact until the car is in neutral you wouldnt know anything is wrong. The rattle is a constant sound which speeds up if the accelerator is pressed. Anybody got any ideas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Is your car modded at all ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonT Posted March 26, 2002 Author Share Posted March 26, 2002 Nope, Not modded... Plain old stock.... I think.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Sounds as if it could be the flywheel. Although i think you need to get one of the experts to listen to it for a better opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mycroft Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Synchromesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRalphMan Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Could be the Clutch bearing, it sits on the shaft from the Gearbox and is able to slide up and down the shaft. If this wears, it normally only rattles when it has no pressure on it, i.e. when the clutch is fully up. Not too sure if it would make the noise when it's in gear and the clutch up, but then you'll be going along a quite a pace and might not be able to hear it. If this is the case, then you should only have to press the clutch down slightly, to put some strain on the bearing, it not then it could be something internal to the gearbox. I hope it's not the latter.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 I'm not sure if you guys are aware but the manual Supra uses a dual mass flywheel which is known to wear over time. My guess is that this has worn prematurely (not sure of the mileage on Gordon's car though) and the noise he is hearing is a slackness between the two plates. But as mentioned previously it really needs somebody who has witnessed these type of problems to lend a helpful ear. The V160 box is extremely strong and the amount of synchromesh failures are few and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipfinger Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 My clutch plates make a funny whining noise in neutral with the clutch pedal down too......and mine is an N/A Just sounds like a worn clutch t'me...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 When the car is in neutral with the clutch out the only parts of the gearbox assembly that is turning will be the clutch assembly and input shaft. The clutch driven plate will be locked to the flywheel so nothing should be rattling there. The clutch release bearing will be "free" because you are not loading it up by declutching. When you put the clutch in you decouple the driven plate and input shaft from the engine and (theoretically) it should all stop turning. There will always be a little bit of drag from the clutch plate so won't stop completely. The release bearing will be loaded. It sounds like either a worn input shaft bearing or a worn clutch release bearing. My BMW had the former problem for the three years I owned it and it never gave any real problems. It was annoying though. It was a known problem with the gearbox so the mechanics at the local BMW dealership put my mind at rest as soon as they heard it. If it was a flywheel problem I would have though you would feel more wheh the clutch was in rather than the other way around, because when you declutch you are effectively reducing the total system inertia and therefore increasing the vibration in the cranktrain. However I don't have much direct experience with dual mass flywheels so I don't know how they mate to the clutch. Martin, do you have a schematic of the Supra DM flywheel I could see? Purely out of personal interest. Synchros are only working when you are move between gears. In neutral no gears will be dogged to the output shaft, so I wouldn't have thought it was a synchro problem. If the cones were worn enough to rattle you may have noticed a degradation in shift quality as well, but you didn't mention that. HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 The only diagram i know of is in the New Car Features booklet on MKIV.com, however this is missing from the backup site. I do have the page on my PC at home, so Darren if you can message me with your email address i will send it over tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Hi Martin. Thanks! My e-mail address is on my profile. I was looking around what is left of MKIV.com the other day. They used to have a complete technical description of the Supra engine there which made interesting reading. I don't suppose you have this too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 No problem. I do have the NCF 1993 pages all zipped up, but i'm not sure of the total size. Will let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Right here we go, details of the dual mass flywheel :- http://mkiv.christurner.net/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf119.jpg http://mkiv.christurner.net/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf120.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonT Posted March 27, 2002 Author Share Posted March 27, 2002 Thanks for all your help, Im going to get it checked out asap.... Hopefully its not going to be to expensive to repair... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Whoooph! I need a wider screen! :-) Thanks for that Martin. My money is still on it being the input shaft bearings or the release bearing. If the DMF is worn I think you would also notice something on acceleration / deceleration when the torque between the two plates reveresed. One more note for Martin: If you do e-mail me anything, please can you keep the attachements below 1.5Mb? My Yahoo address will reject anything larger. Ta! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonT Posted April 8, 2002 Author Share Posted April 8, 2002 Well, Took the car into toyota tosday to get it checked and guess what, It didnt damned well rattle, seems to be intermittant,. They gave the car a clean bill of health, only thing they said was that i needed new clutch fluid. Admitedly they only gave it a basic check.... So I'm still at a loss as to what it could be thats wrong. Somebody has told me that it could be the thrust bearing thats worn??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Maybe worth checking with this person to make sure they are not getting confused with the release bearing. A thrust bearing is a (usually) planar "white metal" bearing which reacts end-loads on a shaft. I don't know if the input shaft on the Supra gearbox is loaded in this way. I wonder if Martin has a cross-section through the gearbox? Helical gears produce endloads when they are driving, but I'm not sure if this would happen in neutral or not. The gears would be meshed but they wouldn't be transmissing torque (if they were turning at all) so any thrust they generate would be tiny. Failing that, always drive your car near a Toyota garage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 It's normal to get a noise in neutral especially when hot... mine does it and everyone I've asked says you should expect it due to the design of the flywheel and clutch. If you want you can always come over and listen to mine... (Edited by Alex Holdroyd at 7:22 pm on April 8, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mycroft Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 I know that my answer was ridiculed by some, but if this rattle only happens when the gearbox is warm and you have just come down thru the gears, placed her in Neutral and the rattle starts about 5-10 seconds after selecting neutral, then that is quite likely to be the synchromesh, there is a vibration constant in the Supra drivetrain at about 660rpm, this can cause the 'mesh to continue turning, it is slow and sounds sort of grating, hard to describe but the best I can do. Up your tickover by 50rpm and the vibration disappears and the rattle too. It would neatly explain the intermittant nature, most of the other 'solutions' presented would not just disappear, but tickover is not as 'constant' as we imagine. We have discounted an exhaust clip/mounting rattling for the same 'low rev' reason, yes? (Edited by Mycroft at 7:56 pm on April 8, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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