andrew7 Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Hi Steve, Got my oil test back, just wanted you opinion... Looks like I can use the oil for another 3k... Was wondering about the molybdenum content? Bearing leaking or maybe if the fitter who did my filter last time greased the rubber seal?.. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Andrew, The oil seems to be holding up well. The zinc content is still very high. This is the additive to watch for depletion as this is the additive for high pressure anti-wear. The magnesium content is quite high, possibly as an anit-foam additive. Visually it is 9/10 for condition, doesn't mean much... just how dirty it looks! Viscosity at 40 is up a little over the spec of 57, but that just shows its ageing a little. Onto tghe wear metals..... these are very similar to my Sup with the oil that was in it when I bought it..... don't know the brand. The silicon level is a little high, as mine is. Its not a crap air filter as the silicon/ aluminium ratio is not correct. It may be that silicon sealer was used in the engine and is still releasing its silicon content into the oil. Boron at 76 is not a wear metal, but probably an additive. No worries about this unless it increases and your coolant level drops!! Copper at 4 tin at Iron at 8 is excellent, these angines hardly wear the bores and this shows it. As a comparison, a F**d would be showing in the 30 to 50 range!! Now onto Moly. This MAY be the rings wearing, but there would be an iron content much higher as the Moly in the rings is way harder than iron. So we'll discount this for the moment. As you say there may have been a small amount of Moly disulphide grease used on the oil filter gasket at the last oil change, but it may also have been the mechanic adding an oil additive to the new oil??? Looking at my readings when I changed the oil after I bought the car mine was 45 ppm after 2400 miles on the mystery oil. This dropped to 9 ppm on the next sample at 3400 miles on Penzoil semi synth. I'd suggest it is something perculiar to that oil & your Amsoil (although I haven't seen this with the 10W/40 I used to use in the old Jaguar). Best way to find out is to: 1) Phone the mechanic & check he hasn't used moly grease or oil additive 2) Get a virgin sample of your oil done straight out of the container. This is very useful as it shows what the oil is when new & is required if any valid comparisons are to be made about how the oil/engine is wearing. Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew7 Posted June 6, 2006 Author Share Posted June 6, 2006 Mucho Mucho gracias Steve, Your comprehensive report is what I was expecting back from the lab (silly me....)! First time I've ever had this done on a car and now I'm hooked. You always wonder what is going on in your engine, especially woith performance cars.. Glad to know that you are able to give this service. I will be in touch at the next service interval... Re the Moly, I watched them do the job and they tranferred the new oil into one of those big oil cans to pour the oil into the funnel, so maybe it was contaminated. Re the virgin sample, when I get my next 5 ltrs I'll take a sample from the new batch. Thanks again Steve, will be in touch.. And for everyone else out there, DO THIS. It tells you so much about your pride and joy's health... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew7 Posted June 6, 2006 Author Share Posted June 6, 2006 Just had a thought. The moly may have come from the brand new syringe I used. It was lubricated with some kind of grease.I Wiped it out as best I could before using it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 May have done, though anything is a possibiliy. Best way to take a sample if you're not changing the oil is to use a new medical syringe each time & new clean hose down the dipstick hole. Get syringes from the local chemists. If you are changing the oil, make sure its hot first then just hold the sample bottle under the oil flow out of the sump. Make sure its not the first oil or last oil to drain out though as these may be unrepresentative. About mid drain is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stt Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Wow,That makes for some interesting reading!,I will have to follow up on this I reckon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew7 Posted September 12, 2006 Author Share Posted September 12, 2006 Just had another test done at 6000 miles. Recommendation is to continue use and resample after another 3000 miles.. Changes from the original sample above were: Visc.40: gone from 69 to 76 B: Down from 76 to 44 ppm Na From 2 to 3 Si: Up from 10 to 32 Li and Al and Cr: same Cu: from 5 to 4 Fe: from 5 to 8 Pb from 3 to 2 Sn: same Mo: Up from 20 to 27 Ni,Ti, Ag, Mn and V: same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 I was wondering how long it would be before a service like this was offered on motor vehicles. I did this job on helicopters (oil and particle analysis) for years in the RAF. Initially it may seem like an unnescesary expense but long term it will save you money. Predicting and even averting critical failures is a good thing in my book also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Just had another test done at 6000 miles. Recommendation is to continue use and resample after another 3000 miles.. Changes from the original sample above were: Visc.40: gone from 69 to 76 B: Down from 76 to 44 ppm Na From 2 to 3 Si: Up from 10 to 32 Li and Al and Cr: same Cu: from 5 to 4 Fe: from 5 to 8 Pb from 3 to 2 Sn: same Mo: Up from 20 to 27 Ni,Ti, Ag, Mn and V: same EDIT - A bit confused... Your 3000 mile result shows Moly at 27, but you say its gone up from 20 to 27 at 6000 miles. Can you post a scan of the result?? Its taken a while for me to spot this update, apologies. It all looks absolutely fine and things are changing as xpected. The oil is thickening as the combustion by products (mostly carbon) get absorbed into the oil. The level of Boron is falling, showing it is an additive and doing its job. Silicon increasing without a corresponding increase in aluminium at the expected ratio shows it is not dirt, so the air filter is ok. Possibly silicon gasket as mentioned before?? Copper & lead dropping show that there is very little bearing wear at all. The lowest I've seen on an engine anyway Iron is very low, so very little bore or cam wear. Next to nothing. Molybdenum increasing shows that its probably not a grease used as it is still increasng. It may be the rings may be wearing slightly more than the bores, but if so we're still talking about bugger all wear. It may also be from the turbine shaft of the turbos. Add tem together and the two look ok anyway. I wouldn't be even slightly concened if it was only the rings or the turbo shafts. EDIT - Quick thought, do you have a turbo timer??? I guess the zinc & magnesium levels have also dropped as their additives are used up as high pressure/anti foam additives?? Looking great. Keep using the Amsoil, its working well. No need to change the oil yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew7 Posted October 14, 2006 Author Share Posted October 14, 2006 Hi Steve, Here's the two test results. My mistake. The Moly dropped from 27 to 20.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Ahhhhh, right. If its dropping then it may be Moly grease after all!! Do you live by the sea BTW???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew7 Posted October 14, 2006 Author Share Posted October 14, 2006 Steve, just edited the second photo as the numbers weren't readable on the first one.... No, I live in Bristol. How does living by the sea figure?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 I could read them Had eyes lasered Additives are depleting nicely, but not so fast that it shows the oil is too thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew7 Posted October 14, 2006 Author Share Posted October 14, 2006 PS.. Does it matter that they didn't do the 100 degree test?.... I am wondering what the true viscosity is at the moment. I called Robertson and asked and he said it was probably at 10W on the lower level, but didn't give me the other figure.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 No, I live in Bristol. How does living by the sea figure?.... Thinking that the silicon level is going up without the aluminium going up at the same rate in the correct ratio for normal dirt. Was wondering about sand. Have you been at the beach? Building site?? The iron & lead levels are not increasing, so it isnt a problem. I was just wondering if there was super fine sand dust getting in through the air filter, or if its silicon sealant as previously thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 PS.. Does it matter that they didn't do the 100 degree test?.... I am wondering what the true viscosity is at the moment. I called Robertson and asked and he said it was probably at 10W on the lower level, but didn't give me the other figure.... They don't do the 100 degree test on this level of analysis, you have to pay more. I did have a contact for a cheaper test kit that actually gave all these results inc TAN & TBN, but I think they went out of business! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew7 Posted October 14, 2006 Author Share Posted October 14, 2006 Hi Steve. Re the sand, most of my near neighbours have been doing "home improvements" this summe, driveways, building extensions etc.....wondering if that could be it.... Also I do quite e few motorway trips, which always get the car covered in dust and debris...Are mayflies made of sand BTW, loads of them on the car this year..:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Nope, mayflies are made of 79% protein... YUM! Guess the silicon will have to remain a mystery! What air filter are you running BTW?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew7 Posted October 14, 2006 Author Share Posted October 14, 2006 Air filter is standard Toyota, identical to the Mk IV.....changed not too long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew7 Posted October 14, 2006 Author Share Posted October 14, 2006 Sand?....golf course!.....go there a lot in the summer....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 I think I have this nailed! Silicon is commonly around 10 ppm in Supra engines at 3000 miles of oil use. So 30 ppm at 6000 miles isn't far from what should be. My Supra shows between 11 & 13 at 3000 mile changes. Another Supra has shown 20 at 6000 miles. Its possble that changing the air filter actually caused some sand to get into the clean side of the housing, increasing the readings. You changed the air filter sometime between the two samples??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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