Chris Wilson Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 The most exciting devlopment in manual gearbox design is about to become commercially available. If you forgive the makers for choosing a TVR as the mule, and you have to, such is the ingeniousness of the thing, we can all look forward to full power, no torque drop, clutchless gear changes from what look like conventional manual boxes from the outside. In fact the deveolpment boxes are based on a Borg Warner T-5 and another common production casing, both with modded internals. The makers are not divulging *how* the internals work, as they are going about an unusual, and also ingenious way of protecting their product, but I am privvy to what they have done, and it is so simple yet so revolutionary. The biggest step forward in car design in God knows how many years. I want one. NOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 So whats so good about it then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Sounds v.interesting. ZeroShift by any chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outatime Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Sounds intriguing... Is it anything like the CVT box that Audi are using? That came out with a lot of fanfare but I've not heard much of it since. I assume its not a faux manual 'tiptronic' system? There is some stuff about the CVT system here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 No, it's extremely simple, and won't put much cost on a production manaul box. The Audi one foundered as it was too expensive for production. The porsche PPK or whatever it was designated was better, but again, very expensive to produce. As for CVT's, if F1 had had the foresight to allow development of these (Williams and AP had a workable set up), then i think the manual AND auto boxes as we know them may have been on their way to being obsolete by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 so what is it? Stick shift as normal with no clutch pedal? Are there no down sides to this at all? Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 Still has a clutch, for normal stop and start. There is no need to use it once in motion. They reckon in a powerful car a 0 to 100 distance might be reduced by many yards. In F1 it would shave a LOT off a laptime, assuming the short sighted lot don't ban this, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 So it bypasses the clutch but you still get to shift gears? And the shift speed depends on how fast you wrench it from gear to gear? Sounds good -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weka Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Chris, Is it the Torotrak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 So it's a true manual box then? Does that mean it is a sequential box similar to F1 or WRC ? I couldn't go to driving a car where you don't have the option to heel and toe etc. How will this new box manage downchange etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Is it a twin-clutch setup as used in the Bugatti Veyron? ie one clutch plate is already "loaded" with the next gear and you switch between the two or something . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weka Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Torotrak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Originally posted by Adam W Is it a twin-clutch setup as used in the Bugatti Veyron? ie one clutch plate is already "loaded" with the next gear and you switch between the two or something . . . The Audi TT has this too right ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambo Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Do you mean the sequential gearbox fitted (apparently) to the TVR T440? You use the clutch while pulling away from standstill and for coming to a stop but once you're up and rolling you just punch the lever forwards or backwards to change gear? Didn't know they had got it working properly! Hello everyone by the way! Not got a supra..... yet.....just working out how much I could sell my family and pets for to put towards the supra fund! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W2 Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Hello Lambo! I know crap all about transmission systems but isn't this the same as motorbike gearboxes? My off road and road bikes can all be shifted without using the clutch and at high RPM/loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 7, 2004 Author Share Posted January 7, 2004 Originally posted by mcanny Sounds v.interesting. ZeroShift by any chance? Cigar to you Sir Info Here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyefi Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 sounds really good, i wonder how much it will cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Cool article, so who going to send them a supra box then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albundy68 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 wonder what the costs would be to convert a supra box, any thoughts chris??? im thinking not cheap, initially at least... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 If the yanks get hold of it then it will be very popular on the Supra - it ought to be bloody great for drag racing. Instant shifts and no loss of boost between them, just like an auto, but none of the transmission losses thorugh the convertor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 It wouldn't be a massive job to convert a Supra to use the 5 speed T5 box I would guess. I always think the 6 speed is totally pointless. You may be able to get a direct top T5, not sure, but for performance use I don't see the point of an overdrive top. Fine for a motorway road car though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt B Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Sounds very impressive indeed:respekt: Any ideas on timescales and costs involved yet Chris??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by Chris Wilson It wouldn't be a massive job to convert a Supra to use the 5 speed T5 box I would guess. I always think the 6 speed is totally pointless. You may be able to get a direct top T5, not sure, but for performance use I don't see the point of an overdrive top. Fine for a motorway road car though... Yes, but who would want to swap the built-proof 6sp for a lesser gearbox? I think people were thinking along the lines converting the current gearbox rather than swapping it. As for 6sp gearboxes being pointless, more gears = shorter ratios, a definite advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 10, 2004 Author Share Posted January 10, 2004 Originally posted by Matt B Sounds very impressive indeed:respekt: Any ideas on timescales and costs involved yet Chris??? I believe production kits to convert T5 boxes should be available mid year. I would need to offer one up in the Supra tunnel to see whether it would fit and where the gear lever ended up. A bellhousing adapter, new clutch plate and some means of operating the stock pull type clutch would ceratinly be needed, as would a new or modded propshaft and a new rear gearbox mounting. Probably about 1000 for the modded bits, plus the box itself. Would be less in quantity, probably... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 10, 2004 Author Share Posted January 10, 2004 Originally posted by Syed Shah Yes, but who would want to swap the built-proof 6sp for a lesser gearbox? I think people were thinking along the lines converting the current gearbox rather than swapping it. As for 6sp gearboxes being pointless, more gears = shorter ratios, a definite advantage. IMO it's a horrible box. Positively truck like change. OK, it's strong, but a torquey turbo engine doesn't need 6 ratios, and over driven ratios aren't needed on a perforfance only car. There are much nicer changing boxes able to carry the torque. T5 is a nicer shifting box, and bits are a lot cheaper. I wouldn't think they'll do a Getrag 6 speed conversion for a long time, it's not popular enough. They'll want to get into mass production boxes and look to big sales! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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