Paul R Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Hi, Should be picking up my new car soon. It has the following mods: K&N induction kit, Front mounted intercooler, oil cooler, first cat removed, RSR exhaust HKS SQV. My question is if I get an AVC-R will I be able to raise the boost? or does the second cat need to come out? If the second cat does come out, will i be able to control the boost without a restrictor ring? Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRoy Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Yes! No! BUT I think Leon managed to get a Blitz BC to lower boost? Could be talking bollox though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Originally posted by BigRoy Yes! No! BUT I think Leon managed to get a Blitz BC to lower boost? Could be talking bollox though! Yes to what Roy, Yes he will be able to raise boost, or yes the cat has to come out. This is my understanding, you can leave the second cat in, but by raising boost you will also create a lot of heat through the cat. Probably unwanted.... If the cat does come out, then you will probably need a restrictor ring, especially if you start boosting over 1.2b, have you a boost gauge fitted, if not you'll never know..... And usually once the cat is removed you have raised your boost level from .9 to roughly 1.2 - 1.5, so its like trying to fit a BC to a stock setup and saying lower the boost to .5, it cant do it, it can only manage boost, not control it, as I have been told, pretty sure thats the gist of it. And I did hear that Leon managed to lower the boost once..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 The Blitz DSBC does seem to be able to reduce the boost on a decatted car, it cant do a huge amount with it so if you are hitting 1.2 then it might control it down to 1bar or 1.1bar but it cant control it way way down. The single solenoid Blitz units dont seem to be able to do the same, and the newer dual solneoid units are a bit edgy as well. Best bet is to decat and then fit a restrictor ring to get the boost to what you want and then let the boost controller raise the boost as required. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted January 2, 2004 Author Share Posted January 2, 2004 So it sounds like the best thing to do is remove the second cat and restrictor ring to 1.2bar and then fit a boost controller to raise boost as required from 1.2bar? By the way, I'm planning on a nitrous kit in April :-) It should be one mean car when it's all done! Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Originally posted by Paul R So it sounds like the best thing to do is remove the second cat and restrictor ring to 1.2bar and then fit a boost controller to raise boost as required from 1.2bar? By the way, I'm planning on a nitrous kit in April :-) It should be one mean car when it's all done! Paul. Thats the way Paul, have you done anything with fueling, FMIC ???? Cant see a mods list thats all......... EDITED: Doh, just read the beggining again, see you are FMIC, might want to think about fueling, if your going to start running it above 1.2b !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted January 2, 2004 Author Share Posted January 2, 2004 Hi Ash, It may have had the fueling taken care of already - wont pick it up for a few weeks as i'm waiting for mot and reg number! Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 I'll have a look and see if its got stock jap injectors for you , i would go for the restrictor ring and BC myself , a manual car with these Mods 'FEELS' so much faster than an auto (Matt H's), im going to fit some NOS on mine shortly so can let you know whats its like , personally id maybe think about 264 cams and RLTC , I say the cams because it would really feel like it was pulling with them fitted . Dude:flame Dev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted January 2, 2004 Author Share Posted January 2, 2004 Originally posted by dude personally id maybe think about 264 cams and RLTC , I say the cams because it would really feel like it was pulling with them fitted . Dude:flame Dev Hi, I'm up on add on bits and turbos but I'm not so hot on engine internals - I know what the cams are but what is a 264 cam? Sorry if it's a silly question!! I've never gone into modifying parts of the engine like that. Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 it will pull harder up the top end !!!!!! Dude:flame Dev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted January 2, 2004 Author Share Posted January 2, 2004 But wont that sacrafice the bottom end?? Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Originally posted by Paul R But wont that sacrafice the bottom end?? Paul. Not in a manual !!!!! and how much time do you spend under 2000 rpm ????? Dude:flame Dev if it bogs knock it down a cog !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted January 2, 2004 Author Share Posted January 2, 2004 Originally posted by dude Not in a manual !!!!! and how much time do you spend under 2000 rpm ????? Dude:flame Dev if it bogs knock it down a cog !!!! ermmm...when I'm stood still! So how much would a set of cams cost including fitting? Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 i got 264 in 264 ex cams and it idles slightly lumpy and pulls very strong i am on an auto too. you read of cams affecting bottom end. but i like them. the 272 cams are mainly for top end and single turbo cars, you suppose to lose bottom end. so many mods so little money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Originally posted by Paul R But wont that sacrafice the bottom end?? Paul. Yes, no such thing as a free lunch. Also, the ECU won't be mapped to understand what's going on with different valve lift and / or timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted January 3, 2004 Author Share Posted January 3, 2004 Originally posted by Chris Wilson Yes, no such thing as a free lunch. Also, the ECU won't be mapped to understand what's going on with different valve lift and / or timing. I take it that this would have adverse affects? Does this mean an aftermarket ECU too? Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Originally posted by Paul R I take it that this would have adverse affects? Does this mean an aftermarket ECU too? Paul. Yes, the timing and mixture maps to get the best from different cams will need altering quite a lot. Ideally the "map" that drives the turbo change over would need re addressing, too. A cam swap on a simple, N/A engine isn't exactly trivial to do properly, on a twin sequential turbo...... For sure, people swap cams and claim improved performance, but the advantages are almost certainly grossly diluted by not having the mapping optimised to suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Originally posted by Chris Wilson Yes, no such thing as a free lunch. Also, the ECU won't be mapped to understand what's going on with different valve lift and / or timing. Chris I was reading something on .co.uk about cams, specially for the VVT-i. You say that the ECU wont be able to understand whats going on with different valve lieft and or timing, what about the ECU on a VVT-i, seeing as its already variable valve timing, or am I not getting this. Also from what I read I need different cams for the VVT-i, care to go into it a bit for us...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Well, the VVti ecu will be mapped to run those profiles correctly. If you cahnge profiles on the VVti (and I am unsure if other profiles are available for both VVTi cams), then another map would have to be created to take proper advantage of them. The latest software on the Motec M800 series will run the VVTi stuff, so assuming other profiles can be sourced that's one ecu that could be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Originally posted by Chris Wilson Well, the VVti ecu will be mapped to run those profiles correctly. If you cahnge profiles on the VVti (and I am unsure if other profiles are available for both VVTi cams), then another map would have to be created to take proper advantage of them. The latest software on the Motec M800 series will run the VVTi stuff, so assuming other profiles can be sourced that's one ecu that could be used. Why are the cams different on a VVT-i TT to a earlier TT, suppose Im asking stupid questions really before I fully understand cams, but dont they keep everything in time ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Ashley, have a look here: LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Chris, Is there anything physically different about a cam used on a VVT-i, or is it just the controlling electronics? The only cams I've seen listed for the VVT-i are from HKS. The inlet needs the "Valcon" controller and comes with a 264, the exhaust cam apparently doesn't need the controller. If you used the M800 could you select a pair of suitable cams and have these mapped properly, specifically to improve low down responsiveness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Originally posted by Chris Wilson Yes, no such thing as a free lunch. Also, the ECU won't be mapped to understand what's going on with different valve lift and / or timing. Chris , theres plenty of guys running higher lift cams and getting good results without an aftermarket ECU both here and in the states in particular the 264 profile which gives an acceptable idle !! Dude:flame Dev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Without re mapping the results will never be anything like as "good" as they should and could be, that's a fact I'm afraid. ECU's, even fairly modern ones like the Supra MKIV, are just not capable of re mapping themselves to accomodate valve timing changes. A pair of cams may give some performance gain, at some points in the rev band, but short of re mapping fuelling and ignition it will be very hit and miss. Mainly miss.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 when i get new mods some are harder to tell than other. with my cams i noticed it seemd to rev a lot easier and am sure the second turbo kicked in different too. to me they pull very good and idle is nothing to worry about. if i remember before it used to idle at about 500 or 600 revs and was very stable. now its up and down between 500-600. dont know what the cams are set at, but im happy with them. to me i thought i would give them a go. as theres lots of good and bad storys going round. some say you lose bottom end. i have not lost any. pay your money and give it ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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