tDR Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I view this as pretty fundamental in my modding plans to run decent 1/4's in my '97 TT (non vvti) and previously had thought I'd just go for a Boostlogic built autobox and be done with it. I've got a spare autobox sat on my garage floor and was all ready to go for it when I started doing some research on the subject both here and on Supraforums. A search over there revealed some people had broken the BL tranny at relatively low power levels and there are guys like PHR saying (expectedly) that the BL tranny isn't all that and is directly comparable to their (cheaper) stage 1 tranny. They also won't give any indication of power handling ability and always advise people that for reliability requires going TH400 conversion which has no overdrive, is a fair bit more expensive and won't be very good for normal Mway driving etc. Can anyone with personal experience of uprated mkiv autoboxes give their opinion / share their experience? Also, would it be possible for me to source all the necessary bits to rebuild and uprate my spare auto tranny myself? I'm no stranger to mechanical work and don't mind getting my hands dirty! I figure this route would save a chunk of money in terms of shipping charges alone, nevermind labour. Can anyone offer prices / options for built autoboxes or parts to rebuild them, along with where to buy from? Also, some advice as to which make of hi stall to go for would be good - I'm pretty certain a 4000 stall will be fine for me. I'm aiming for around 500RWHP with a T61 sized turbo / emanage / 650's combo to make a good streetable car that can run quick passes on the strip. Also, what tranny cooler kit to go for / how much / where from? I've read a number of people also run two transmission coolers - is this really necessary? Thanks in advance, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Give Leon @ JPS a call mate, he is the ONLY person in the UK with real experience of built auots on Supras, so that is the advice I would trust. He gets his done in UK, so thats the shipping savings right there. For a 4k rpm stall you NEED 2 coolers or one very big one. One at least must have a fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I had a 3800 stall TC on mine with a T67 tubby and found that to be a good combination. I think a 4000 stall on a T61 would be a bit high IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I have just had another tranny cooler added to mine with a 7.5" spal fan as well. So running 2 coolers now. I have also had the stock rad removed and had that replaced with a Fluidyne so 2 coolers are really a must for me with the 3800 stall. I will have a BL JDM autobox with a PI 3800 stall for sale shortly. I do not know what might be wrong with them though. I just had them both replaced with new units as I wanted to get it sorted a.s.a.p. It could just be the stall that was cooked a bit or maybe just the clutch packs. I might know more in a few days... If anyone is interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSteve Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 How far can you take a stock autobox with good cooling? 500bhp? Agree 4000 on a t61 sounds a bit much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 i've got a BL built transmission mid atlantic as we speak i run a T61 so have gone for the relatively modest 3200 stall, i'me making boost at 2800 so felt this enough, with regard to coolers you wont know until you get a temp gauge on the trans fluid i did this a while back with 1 fluidyne trans cooler with fan and the temps after some WOT runs were through the roof i am now fitting another cooler (slightly bigger than the fluidyne) i think 2 coolers is the starting point with a single, if you do a search on Dude he had 4 fitted on his car ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 i've got a BL built transmission mid atlantic as we speak i run a T61 so have gone for the relatively modest 3200 stall, i'me making boost at 2800 so felt this enough, with regard to coolers you wont know until you get a temp gauge on the trans fluid i did this a while back with 1 fluidyne trans cooler with fan and the temps after some WOT runs were through the roof i am now fitting another cooler (slightly bigger than the fluidyne) i think 2 coolers is the starting point with a single, if you do a search on Dude he had 4 fitted on his car ! paul how do you control the fans on your cooler? what thermostat are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Just stripped my box and turned the line pressure up, bit harsh when selecting drive but very slick changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribleturner Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 The stock box i belive should handle 500rwhp, specially if you get that kit that replaces the ball bearings etc..... You can do that yourself and you'll geet better gear changes. Joe, who and where did you get your cooler and fan from?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 Guys, I'm not looking for borderline here - I want to know I can go to the strip and properly abuse it without any real concern. I'm talking using DR's, a line lock and doing some proper burnouts across the line to lay down some rubber before going for really hard launches. Syed - Interesting RE: Leon, given the sort of power he has. Do you know if he's tried a box from BL or similar? What does he get done to the boxes and roughly how much does he charge? Do you know which tranny builder he uses and whether I can speak directly with them? RE: the hi stall - why do you guys think a 4000 would be too much? I noticed MonkeyMark said a 3800 stall was no problem on stock turbos and he had no qualms now running a 4000... I want to make sure I can get off the line real quick. I'm worried that going for too low a stall would become a problem off the line when drag racing if I was to swap the 61 out for something bigger. Cheers, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribleturner Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Leon iss now using a powerglidee i tthink, but wheen ever i've contaacted him about this he's not been very helpfull in the past Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Joe, who and where did you get your cooler and fan from?? **Whoops... edit to say Lucifer, I ordered it in the deal he was doing on the Fluidyne rads a short time ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Syed - Interesting RE: Leon, given the sort of power he has. Do you know if he's tried a box from BL or similar? What does he get done to the boxes and roughly how much does he charge? Do you know which tranny builder he uses and whether I can speak directly with them? Brian. Would also like to know this. Also, I have a PI 3800 which behaves like a 4000. Anyone know if it can be modified to a 3200 (re-flashed?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Leon's Boxes have always been 'Level 10' but trust me he has been through a few!. The BL boxes have held up on 9 second cars, just how fast do you want! Kean puts a limit of 700 bhp on the BL box for good reason. Dude ran one above this level but we always treated it as a time bomb. The thing that kills them seems to be heat. Precision will alter the TC stall rate once FOC AFAIK, but it would mean shipping back to the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Leon's Boxes have always been 'Level 10' but trust me he has been through a few!. The BL boxes have held up on 9 second cars, just how fast do you want! Kean puts a limit of 700 bhp on the BL box for good reason. Dude ran one above this level but we always treated it as a time bomb. The thing that kills them seems to be heat. Precision will alter the TC stall rate once FOC AFAIK, but it would mean shipping back to the US. Terry, do you import PI T/C's? If so how much are they? I guess if I want mine re-flashed to a lower stall , the shipping would be considerable. Do you do part exchanges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 No PX's mate, will PM a cost over later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Guys, I'm not looking for borderline here - I want to know I can go to the strip and properly abuse it without any real concern. I'm talking using DR's, a line lock and doing some proper burnouts across the line to lay down some rubber before going for really hard launches. Syed - Interesting RE: Leon, given the sort of power he has. Do you know if he's tried a box from BL or similar? What does he get done to the boxes and roughly how much does he charge? Do you know which tranny builder he uses and whether I can speak directly with them? RE: the hi stall - why do you guys think a 4000 would be too much? I noticed MonkeyMark said a 3800 stall was no problem on stock turbos and he had no qualms now running a 4000... I want to make sure I can get off the line real quick. I'm worried that going for too low a stall would become a problem off the line when drag racing if I was to swap the 61 out for something bigger. Cheers, Brian. Brian, I am afraid I cannot answer your questions but give him a call. I have always found him helpful on Supra information. (terribleturner, you probably caught him at a busy time). Given the abuse it sounds like you want to give it, maybe a TH400 is the best bet, perhaps with a Gear Vendors OD unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 paul how do you control the fans on your cooler? what thermostat are you using? my bad boy is off the road at the moment and the stat on the cooler is the least of my problems pm psymon he has the stat on his Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 My 3800 feels pretty tame off the line on ET Streets so I reckon a 4000 would be ok for you. Not sure about street driving though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 if you are really serious about drag racing you need a Lenco transmission. You won't break that, they are built from a clean sheet of paper to do the job, not a conversion of a road car box. A colleague has just bought one at far from silly money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I guess if 3000 bhp and 0-100 in one second don't cause them to break, they should be OK in a MKIV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 You can get lesser ones, but being epicyclic the WHOLE design concept is far more in tune with drag racings needs than a conventional gear or auto box set up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted May 18, 2006 Author Share Posted May 18, 2006 Terry - The PR on the BL boxes seems excellent but I worry about the durability behind the scenes... OK Kean has run 9's but he isn't gonna advertise if he's had to rebuild / replace parts of the box as it's not in his commercial interest. Please don't take that as me slating BL products - they are indeed proven and excellent - I'm just being sceptical as I don't wanna end up doubling my costs and my time if what I choose breaks. Syed - Gear vendors O/D unit? Tell me more! Also, is there not anyone doing a yankee built auto for the mkiv that includes overdrive? I'm sure I read of a similar GM transmission that was almost as strong as a TH400 but had overdrive, but can't remember the model number. Chris - Any idea of a ballpark figure for a Lenco transmission? And how easy would one be to bolt up to a mkiv? Is that the company now supplying noble for their new car? Cheers, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I think they are in the region of 15 to 18k new, but about 1/3 of that used, I don't know anything about drag racing though, it's all a waste of time and money to me... You would need a custom bellhousiing and a good deal of sundy fabrication, but no more than I am doing putting a Glebe T5 in my Skyline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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