High Power Supra's (are they all that?)

[Tom]

Possibly opening a whole can of woms here, but are the "high powered" supra's all that? I ask as I've been looking at a few dyno's recently and it seems that on almost all of them the power peaks at redline, surely it would be much better if the power peaked from around 4.5-5k than right near redline? especially with these 1000bhp supra's it's a great figure to wow you but when it's only for a 200rpm what's the point? and when it's jumped from 700-1000 within 1000rpm! it seems that the power is not all there really when it's so shortly lived.

 

What would the "ideal" dyno look like? and how can a supra be tuned so that the most power is during mid range rather than the last few rpm? as it seems to me that it would be much better having a peak of 600bhp more through out the rev range than a peak of 800bhp just at the end of it, so this asks the question, say you have 2 cars running 500bhp, can one car have a much better 500 than the other and be much faster, assuming weight, torque etc are the same?

 

I've attached a couple of graphs of 2 supra's running around 630bhp, to me even though the power output is very similar it would seem that the 1st one would be much quicker, and these both have the same turbo.

 

 

 

So when I see races like 600bhp vs 800bhp, I guess the 600 could be a lot quicker as the 800 is making it's power way to high in the rev range while the 600 will be hitting that figure and holding it for much longer.

 

Thought's please

[colsoop]

I think it would depend on the scenario you were putting the cars in to.

The track, the road or the drag strip.

As different setups would suit each of the above.

Also those dyno graphs don't account for how the car is set up to put that power down.

Sorry it didn't really answer your question just offering a few more what ifs in there

[Ian C]

The area under the curve makes for a fast car, not sacrificing it all for the ultimate headline power figure. You're right, given the choice I'd have the top one. Cams can feature in the power curve, as well as what your boost controller is up to, and what gear it's dyno'd in, and lots of other things besides

 

-Ian

[Ewen]

Im not answering, but Im gonna open myself up for abuse by assuming....

 

If both cars have similar torque, the one with max power available at higher rpm will have a higher top speed.The one with max power available closer to mid range would have better acceleration. So Id assume that the best of both worlds would be to have a torque curve that climbs rapidly then stays fairly level for maximum acceleration, but the power curve should climb steadily toward the max revs to ensure maximum top speed...

 

How did I do ?

[stupra]

When i go single (soon hopefully), i'm gonna try for around 600 bhp, from what i hear this is good for the road. I think 800 bhp would be a bit peaky for the road, an must have alot of lag i should think. Plus it'd be expensive to get the extra 200 bhp, an if you couldn't use it, what would be the point ?. I may be wrong on all counts though.

[Tom]

I think it would depend on the scenario you were putting the cars in to.

The track, the road or the drag strip.

As different setups would suit each of the above.

Also those dyno graphs don't account for how the car is set up to put that power down.

Sorry it didn't really answer your question just offering a few more what ifs in there

 

Well that's the thing also, it's seems that maybe people are way to focused on getting a high figure then to find they can't do anything with that power when the times show the real performance of the car.

 

With all the hype of singles lately I have yet to see someone put down a good time with the power produced that seems a worth while move from bpu to single ie another 200bhp, so it seems like a waste of money, and yes a lot of good times are produced over the pond, but they are not running on street tyres.

 

Edited.

[Ewen]

How did I do ?

 

4/10 by the looks of it

 

Out of interest, will going BPU increase power following stock curve or offer greater gains mid range ?

[jason m]

Lets remember that 500 odd bhp is still high powered in a real car. Terry, Ian C etc all seem to suffer wheel spin in first, second and even in third gear with the 67's. 800bhp would probably be slower than 600bhp on the roar even if they spooled up the same.

[Kopite]

My turbo makes it's peak boost at 4500-ish (still needs Thor to do a bit more work on the map), is very driveable IMO. You do need to knock it down a gear but it goes straight into the power band and off she goes. A huge powered car with it's peak boost up around the redline does nothing for me.

[Ian C]

Well that's the thing also, it's seems that maybe people are way to focused on getting a high figure then to find they can't do anything with that power when the times show the real performance of the car.

 

With all the hype of singles lately I have yet to see someone put down a good time with the power produced that seems a worth while move from bpu to single ie another 200bhp, so it seems like a waste of money, and yes a lot of good times are produced over the pond, but they are not running on street tyres.

 

Edited.

 

Pffft, who cares about drag times, I like driving mine on the road Once you are rolling a single turbo'd car is an absolute beast and a hoot to drive If you've not been in one, try and blag a ride.

 

-Ian

[Thorin]

Can't really compare as they are obviously from two different dyno's. If it were same dyno and same day for both cars, who knows the second one might be the one looking better.

 

I agree though, the first graph looks much better. Seems pointless to me these huge powered supra's that make most of their power in the last 2k revs. Around 600bhp and just starting to run out of puff at the redline seems ideal to me

[Gazboy]

Surely the car with the higher bhp at the highest revs will have the highest top speed? You can't go past peak power in 6th-can you?

[Gamer]

The first dyno sheet clearly says 'New cams' (also new rear) on it so that is the most likely reason for the different power curve....

[Bobbeh]

I've seen tones of videos of Supras racing, and its obvious why people go big hp when you watch those cars destroying lesser powered ones

[Gazboy]

It'll be interesting to see how Terry and Homer's cars compare at SRR in July- hopefuly between us we could overlay the torque and power graphs.

[Guest Terry S]

you could do that from the last SRR day Gaz

[Digsy]

Power is the rate of doing work, so as long as you continue to rev the engine the power will continue to rise, until the torque curve falls off, so in a gasoline engine you can't really avoid having peak power high up in the rev range - espcially if you have a big fat laggy turbo

 

At the risk of incurring thw wrath of all the big single owners, I'm a lot more impressed by a big fat torque curve than a power curve that looks like someone's. If you don't run a supercharger (or a diesel engine ) then its a lot mor of a challenge to get the BMEP up by making the engine breathe more effectively in the midrange area.

 

The shape of the power and torque curves are linked mathematically, so you can't vary one without affecting the other. Unless you have very specific power targets at the expense of everything else, once you get into how engines really work, tuning is a lot more about the BMEP curve, which is effectively an indirect measure of torque anyway.