mattanna Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 How the f*ck do bmw get so much power from their m3 engines which are n/a and why couldn't toyota do the same for theirs, do the bm's have some special type of fuel or induction system, granted they are slightly more than 3.0 litre but not by much 1998 model was 321 bhp??? and only a 3.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew7 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Like to see what they push out after 10 years or so though..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 All about the revs - loads of 'em! 286bhp (3.0), 321bhp (3.2) and 343bhp (3.2), but never much torque. I've driven the 286bhp E36 and the most recent E46 numerous times, and I do like them both very much, especially the E46. Sounds glorious and is very fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JODY T Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 How the f*ck do bmw get so much power from their m3 engines which are n/a and why couldn't toyota do the same for theirs, do the bm's have some special type of fuel or induction system, granted they are slightly more than 3.0 litre but not by much 1998 model was 321 bhp??? and only a 3.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIMBOW1 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 will they have throttle bodies for a start and then they have a special vvt systen called vanos which is controled by a chain linked to the cam which on full throttle opend the valves longer and on the newer 3.2 have a (double) vanos which controles both cams so it pritty complex as the supra is just a normal inline six with norman induction and normal cams no vvti so to speak hope all that made sense:search: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Apparently the M3 sixes don't make quote power, but they aren't far off. The rumour that the 3.0 version is half a Macca F1 engine isn't that far from the truth, although that engine was based on the 5.5 litre V12 destined for the aborted M8. Lots of revs, high compression and a good airflow with 6 throttle bodies help- but the question you should ask is- how do they make such an engine last so long? Ok the Vanos units pack up, but it's not terminal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 I could imagine those engines make ours look pretty basic...........but I have wondered the same myself....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 supra is just a normal inline six with norman induction and normal cams no vvti so to speak What about the Supes that do have VVT-i, or is it just a case of its not as advanced, poissibly doesnt have as much control....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattSZ Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 The BMW engine was desinged from the ground up to be a high performance N/A engine hence they put in throttle bodies, trick cams, light internals, high rev limit, etc. The supra 2jz engine was desinged to be an engine with turbos hence it is designed differently so the supra N/A engine is basicly a turbo engine with no turbo's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 How the f*ck do bmw get so much power from their m3 engines which are n/a and why couldn't toyota do the same for theirs, do the bm's have some special type of fuel or induction system, granted they are slightly more than 3.0 litre but not by much 1998 model was 321 bhp??? and only a 3.2That's only 100bhp per Litre. Bike manufacturers would scoff at such a measly figure. Yamaha are/were getting 120bhp from a 600cc R1 engine (probably more than that nowadays) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 True, but the bigger the capacity the harder it is to stay at 100bhp/litre and keep reliability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Yeah, I suppose so, without forced induction What about those big lazy yank V8s? Don't some of those make near to 100bhp/Ltr? (Not sure TBH) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 What about the Supes that do have VVT-i, or is it just a case of its not as advanced, poissibly doesnt have as much control....... A basic VVTi system only varies the cam timing. This is what you're getting on the 2JZ VVTi. More advanced systems are able to vary cam timing, valve duration, and lift. This is VTEC or Toyotas VVTL-i (Variable Valve Timing and Lift (w/intelligence!)). Toyota/Yamaha's VVTL-i system on the current shape Celica, puts an extra 50bhp on top of the regular VVTi engines 140bhp. VTEC as we know gives 240bhp out of 2 litres. I'd expect that the BMW VANOS system probably has more in common with these variable valve systems than the older more basic cam-timing only ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 That's only 100bhp per Litre. Bike manufacturers would scoff at such a measly figure. Yamaha are/were getting 120bhp from a 600cc R1 engine (probably more than that nowadays) Yeah but a tiny amount of tourqe - its only got to move a person and the bike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Yeah, I suppose so, without forced induction What about those big lazy yank V8s? Don't some of those make near to 100bhp/Ltr? (Not sure TBH) No, not even close. C5 5.7 corvette- 340bhp C6 6.0 corvette- 400bhp Z06 7.0 corvette 500bhp 8.0 Viper 450bhp 8.5 Viper 500bhp It's probably why they call them lazy yanks lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 I believe the Ferrari F430's engine has the most bhp/litre of any currently produced car. 113BHP/L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Toyota's Celica 190 engine makes 189bhp out of 1.8ltr - 105BHP/L- that's not bad, but.. Honda's S2000 motor makes 237bhp out of 2ltr, so that'd be 118.5BHP/L .. wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 I hear the 'Vanos' system being mentioned - think this was nicked from Honda who call it Vtec as you are probably aware - they get 160 bhp from a little 1600cc engine and 200bhp from and 1800cc and nearly 300 from a 2500cc N/A as standard - so ze Germans aint so clever after all. But being Japanese car fans you all knew this anyway - right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew7 Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 I believe the Ferrari F430's engine has the most bhp/litre of any currently produced car. 113BHP/L ?? Soarer 2.5 TT pushes 280 BHP as standard, 112 bhp/ltr and that was 15 years ago.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Apparently the M3 sixes don't make quote power, but they aren't far off. The rumour that the 3.0 version is half a Macca F1 engine isn't that far from the truth, although that engine was based on the 5.5 litre V12 destined for the aborted M8. I can promise you that the BMW engine has nothing to do with a a Illmor produced F1 engine. The closest link BMW roadcar engines have with F1 engines is that BMW wanted to use the fact that F1 was using V10 engines as a marketing platform for the V10 M5. That's why they threatened to pull out when F1 switched to V8's. Trust me, I got the memo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistonbroke Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 I could imagine those engines make ours look pretty basic...........but I have wondered the same myself....... Pretty basic? Last time I looked under the hood of mine, the twin turbo manifold and all its vacuum pipes scared the hell out of me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Restorer Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 F1 3 litre engines push out 900bhp. Thats 300 per litre and mostly down to them revving upto 20k! Granted they don't last long either. Moaeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 ?? Soarer 2.5 TT pushes 280 BHP as standard, 112 bhp/ltr and that was 15 years ago.... That's a turbo though, we are talking n/a power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 I can promise you that the BMW engine has nothing to do with a a Illmor produced F1 engine. The closest link BMW roadcar engines have with F1 engines is that BMW wanted to use the fact that F1 was using V10 engines as a marketing platform for the V10 M5. That's why they threatened to pull out when F1 switched to V8's. Trust me, I got the memo. Ahem, Mclaren F1 6.0 V12 3 seater road car????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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