Paul Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 A strange request on a car site but I seem to remember one or two members being vets? We've had the worst day in years, got up this morning and our Rough Collie 'Sam' seemed OK to start with then started having a fit all of a sudden. Well he's never had anything like this in his life and is 11yrs old so as you can appreciate it's the worst possible thing to witness happening to a pet that you've loved for all those years. Phoned the emergency vet and managed to get him booked in within 45mins but before we could get him into the car he had another fit. In situations like this you feel so bloody helpless, once he had settled I lifted him into the car and luckily he settled for the short journey over there. The vet said he needed sedating to calm him down and also put him on a drip to re-hydrate him. They need to run loads of tests on him so we had to leave him there, best thing in his condition but very hard to do. We got a phone call at about 4:30pm saying that he had another minor fit before the sedation took hold and that he had run several tests and he could have anything from some sort of chemical imbalance (?) to worst case, a brain tumor:( So, as all pet owners can appreciate we're lost without him and still in shock at the suddeness of it all. They are running tests in the morning and we're praying that he will make it through the night. They said that fits aren't uncommon but never having them and then getting these at such a late stage in life is a worry. Sorry to spout this on here but it helps to get others experiences or some other professional views on the subject. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JODY T Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Hope hes okay mate.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Steviekid is a vet i think dude, hope the pooch is ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bromy Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Sorry to hear this Paul always sad when a pet is ill, hope every thing works out well for your dog, I think Steviekid is a vet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 Yeah, cheers, so do I. He is 11 and obviously getting on a bit but after all those years I'd like to just see him get over this. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarjo Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Paul, just seen this. Feeling for you mate. Hope everything goes ok for you all. Keep us informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steviekid Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 When you say having a fit what was he actually doing? I mean paddling, legs rigid etc? Was he completely unaware of his surroundings? How long did they last? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 Paul, just seen this. Feeling for you mate. Hope everything goes ok for you all. Keep us informed. Thanks all, gonna be a long night for us with him over the vets and all:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 dam. hope he is ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 When you say having a fit what was he actually doing? I mean paddling, legs rigid etc? Was he completely unaware of his surroundings? How long did they last? Hi Steve, thanks for coming on. Right then, he was fine, laying on his side and when he moved to lay on his stomach he started trembling. Laid on his side and legs paddling. Unaware of surroundings and the first lasted 4 minutes approx, the second 3 mins or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 The info we have so far is that he has slightly high collestoral and something to do with his liver count is either 'slightly' high or low? The vet mentioned thyroids at some point too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steviekid Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Hi Steve, thanks for coming on. Right then, he was fine, laying on his side and when he moved to lay on his stomach he started trembling. Laid on his side and legs paddling. Unaware of surroundings and the first lasted 4 minutes approx, the second 3 mins or so. Does sound like a true epileptic fit then. The shorter they last the better although having several in a short space of time (called clusters) is worrying. The vast majority of cases of epilepsy in dogs are idiopathic, i.e no specific cause is ever found. This is partly because the tests needed to find a tumour etc (mainly MRI or CT) are very expensive and don't really affect the treatment options very much. Don't worry about him never having had a fit before, epileptic fits are more worrying for me in young dogs when they're going to have to be controlled for many years. I tend to put animals on treatment to try to prevent fits occuring if they have more than one in a month or clusters as you've described, as the drugs (phenobarbitone as a starting point) are not without their side affects. This being said, as long as routine blood tests are done to check liver function long term treatment is perfectly safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steviekid Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 The info we have so far is that he has slightly high collestoral and something to do with his liver count is either 'slightly' high or low? The vet mentioned thyroids at some point too? Slight variations in cholesterol and liver enzymes are common in older dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 Slight variations in cholesterol and liver enzymes are common in older dogs. Well, that's a little bit of good news. You say that symptoms are not always found and if I understand it right it's because it could be a tumour that can only be detected via MRI or CT scan? Also the side effect of long term use of the epileptic drug could be liver damage? As you say maybe not such an issue in and older dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 In your experience Steve, is it possible that this sudden change in him could be as a result of something other than a tumour? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steviekid Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Well, that's a little bit of good news. You say that symptoms are not always found and if I understand it right it's because it could be a tumour that can only be detected via MRI or CT scan? Also the side effect of long term use of the epileptic drug could be liver damage? As you say maybe not such an issue in and older dog. Symptoms of epilepsy are the same but there can be different causes - tumour/meningitis/poisons/toxins/hydrocephalus etc. It's pretty pointless spending £2k on an MRI when treatment is going to be the same regardless and more often than not nothing abnormal is seen anyway. Epilepsy can be caused by liver disease but this is rare and the blood results would have been very high or off the scale. The main side effect of phenobarb is liver damage but routine blood tests can check this and the dosage can be adjusted accordingly. As long as this comes back ok there's a fair bit of scope to later increase the dosage if needs be. Other drugs, usually bromide, can be added to the phenobarb if the dog's still having fits. I should point out that dogs can have an epileptic fit and then never have one again for the rest of there lives. It's impossible to predict the frequency of attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steviekid Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 In your experience Steve, is it possible that this sudden change in him could be as a result of something other than a tumour? Paul A tumour is actually way down the list of causes. As I said the cause is very rarely pinpointed. Has he shown any behavioural changes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 A tumour is actually way down the list of causes. As I said the cause is very rarely pinpointed. Has he shown any behavioural changes? Only that he has slowed down alot over the last few months, sleeps more. We put that down to his age though. He hasn't walked into things, done anything unusual. Completly out of the blue this morning. Still eating well, not drinking more than usual..........nothing to suggest this was gonna happen. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steviekid Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Only that he has slowed down alot over the last few months, sleeps more. We put that down to his age though. He hasn't walked into things, done anything unusual. Completly out of the blue this morning. Still eating well, not drinking more than usual..........nothing to suggest this was gonna happen. Paul All of the above sound pretty normal. Brain tumours can often change a dog's personality completely with them becoming aggressive or going from very affectionate to not wanting any attention at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 All of the above sound pretty normal. Brain tumours can often change a dog's personality completely with them becoming aggressive or going from very affectionate to not wanting any attention at all. Still the same personality, still VERY affectionate and no sign of agression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steviekid Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Don't panic. Hopefully he'll never have one again or at least not for a long time. Most dogs can be controlled to an acceptable level on tablets if neccessary so you've got options. Any more questions just ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 Sorry to use up so much of your time but could you comment on the 'thyroid' thing that I'm sure he mentioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steviekid Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Sorry to use up so much of your time but could you comment on the 'thyroid' thing that I'm sure he mentioned? Older dogs can have a condition know as hypothyroidism where the thyroid gland in the neck isn't making as much hormone as it should. It has been shown recently that these animals can be more prone to epilepsy due to the disruption of various hormones. Usual signs of hypothyroidism include weight gain, tiredness and a fairly distinctive symmetrical lose of hair with dandruff that is not itchy. They may also look seek heat more than usual and have a slower heart rate. It's diagnosed by blood sample that will have to be sent away to a special lab (your vet's possibly done this already). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 Thanks ever so much Steve, I owe you one mate. It's been a great help getting further info on here from you, I've got faith in our vet and know he'll do all he can, just nice getting some answers to questions I forgot to ask at the time. I'll keep you updated and fingers crossed he'll pull through. Cheers. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steviekid Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Thanks ever so much Steve, I owe you one mate. It's been a great help getting further info on here from you, I've got faith in our vet and know he'll do all he can, just nice getting some answers to questions I forgot to ask at the time. I'll keep you updated and fingers crossed he'll pull through. Cheers. Paul No probs! Should have said that hypothyroidism is fairly easy to treat with tablets although it would be for the rest of his life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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