Clarkey Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I've seen the property that I want. Did the survey's (homebuyer & mortgage survey) - got my soliciter on the case. Now, this property has 80yrs remaining on the lease - I initally thought this was plenty. I was aiming to be in that property 5years. My soliciter advised to get the lease renewed back to 99yrs prior to purchase. Mainly, because of the sellerability of the property, the value of the property deprieciates every year that eats into the lease & the cost of renewing the lease after 5yrs, leaving 75yrs on the lease, could well be more expensive - than it would cost now. Because of this my soliciter hasn't done any searches as yet - he suggested to look at the lease first & then do the searches. So, the only thing I owe my soliciter is his time to look through the lease. My vendor has paid about £2200 in fees. Surveys, Mortgage arrangement & soliciters fees on a property that he wants to buy. He is under pressure from his vendor for a completion date - end of March. My soliciter - said it'll take about 2 weeks to get a renewal quiote from the freeholder. But guesstimates - it'll cost about £3k - to £4k. So, I suggested to the estate agent t- that we wait for my soliciter to get a quote or we could reach an agreement now. I wasn't expecting the vendor to pay for it all ... but rather "that we meet in the middle." I thought that was a good compromise - seeing as my vendor is in such a rush to move. I suggested £1750 off the price of the property. The Vendor has rejected this and has blantantly said "I will NOT pay a penny. No compromise." I'm very confused about this - dumb-founded infact.. The vendor & myself has already spent quite abit of money. I've spent £1200 ... and he's spent £2200. And he's willing to piss all that money down the drain. Lose a buyer for his property. And miss out on the property that he wants to buy .. all for the sake of £1750. Personally, I think he's cutting his nose to spite his face. I'm very new to this house-buying malarky. Due to a limited budget - I can't afford a freehold property. My question now is .... Is there anything I did wrong ? Is my soliciter giving me sound advice ? Ohhhh! I'm sooo annoyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaf Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 cut your losses mate. he will regret it when n oone else wants to buy his property. you can still go on to buy something else and wont lose out too much in the long run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 cut your losses mate. he will regret it when n oone else wants to buy his property. you can still go on to buy something else and wont lose out too much in the long run Yeah I know. A blessing in disguise. But it's just such PITA. I've loved to be a fly on the wall - when the estate agent called him and told him - I wanted to renegoiate because of the lease. I imagine he went ... down the phone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xksupra Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I guess from the sellers point of view he had the property valued and then advertised based on the flat having an 80 year lease. Might be worth checking with the agent if they took into account the length of lease when they priced the flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I've seen the property that I want. Did the survey's (homebuyer & mortgage survey) - got my soliciter on the case. Now, this property has 80yrs remaining on the lease - I initally thought this was plenty. I was aiming to be in that property 5years. My soliciter advised to get the lease renewed back to 99yrs prior to purchase. Mainly, because of the sellerability of the property, the value of the property deprieciates every year that eats into the lease & the cost of renewing the lease after 5yrs, leaving 75yrs on the lease, could well be more expensive - than it would cost now. Because of this my soliciter hasn't done any searches as yet - he suggested to look at the lease first & then do the searches. So, the only thing I owe my soliciter is his time to look through the lease. My vendor has paid about £2200 in fees. Surveys, Mortgage arrangement & soliciters fees on a property that he wants to buy. He is under pressure from his vendor for a completion date - end of March. My soliciter - said it'll take about 2 weeks to get a renewal quiote from the freeholder. But guesstimates - it'll cost about £3k - to £4k. So, I suggested to the estate agent t- that we wait for my soliciter to get a quote or we could reach an agreement now. I wasn't expecting the vendor to pay for it all ... but rather "that we meet in the middle." I thought that was a good compromise - seeing as my vendor is in such a rush to move. I suggested £1750 off the price of the property. The Vendor has rejected this and has blantantly said "I will NOT pay a penny. No compromise." I'm very confused about this - dumb-founded infact.. The vendor & myself has already spent quite abit of money. I've spent £1200 ... and he's spent £2200. And he's willing to piss all that money down the drain. Lose a buyer for his property. And miss out on the property that he wants to buy .. all for the sake of £1750. Personally, I think he's cutting his nose to spite his face. I'm very new to this house-buying malarky. Due to a limited budget - I can't afford a freehold property. My question now is .... Is there anything I did wrong ? Is my soliciter giving me sound advice ? Ohhhh! I'm sooo annoyed. TBH 80years is still quite along time on a lease - only 19 years off a full one. (obviously this varies) I can understand why the vender has said no. How long is your mortgage term? Normally to satisfy the lenders requirements the Lease has to be mortgage term plus 30 years. So...even when you come to sell it if you live there 5 years you should still be ok. I think your solicitor is being over cautious. But if its the flat you really want you should go ahead without the Lease extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 I guess from the sellers point of view he had the property valued and then advertised based on the flat having an 80 year lease. Might be worth checking with the agent if they took into account the length of lease when they priced the flat. Not sure about that. But I saw other properties in the same area .. with 99yr lease. For the same price that he initally put he his property on the market for - 4 months ago. I went for this one ... primarly because the property had much better parking than the others. Perhaps - after the vendor has calmed down and thinks about he'll decide that £1750 isn't much to quibble over. Afterall - he's likely to have the same problem with the lease .. for his next buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xksupra Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 If its been on the market for four months then hold your ground, your in a much better position then him. good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Depends on how much you want this flat. I would go with Charlottes advice and not worry about 80yrs remaining on the lease. Or pull out and start again and next time get all the info you need before paying for searches etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 TBH 80years is still quite along time on a lease - only 19 years off a full one. (obviously this varies) Agreed 80 years is a long time .. as it stands now. But it would mean that its 75 yrs when I do sell. And after speaking to some of the guys at work ... they all advised me to look into the lease prior to purchase. I can understand why the vender has said no. How long is your mortgage term? Tbh - I can't understand why the vendor has declined. Lose the property he wants to buy. Waste all that money he's invested in fees for his new property. Find a new buyer. My mortgage is for 30yrs. So...even when you come to sell it if you live there 5 years you should still be ok. I'm not so sure about that .. a guy at work had 73yrs left on his lease - and he was advised by the estate agent to extend the lease. Because he there wasn't much buyer-interest - and the interest he was getting - the offers weren't what he wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 get all the info you need before paying for searches etc. No searches have been done. The soliciter was just looking into the lease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 If its been on the market for four months then hold your ground, your in a much better position then him. good luck with it. It's been on the market now since late November 2005. He has had other offers. He rejected my 2nd offer. I then - pulled out. 2 weeks later - the estate rang me up .. saying that he's willing to accept it. And then we moved forward. This was before I had spoken to a soliciter. Because I thought 80yrs was fine. I got survey's done, homebuyer, mortgage valuation, electrical & plumbing inspections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Agreed 80 years is a long time .. as it stands now. But it would mean that its 75 yrs when I do sell. And after speaking to some of the guys at work ... they all advised me to look into the lease prior to purchase. Tbh - I can't understand why the vendor has declined. Lose the property he wants to buy. Waste all that money he's invested in fees for his new property. Find a new buyer. My mortgage is for 30yrs. I'm not so sure about that .. a guy at work had 73yrs left on his lease - and he was advised by the estate agent to extend the lease Because he there wasn't much buyer-interest & the interest he was getting - the offers weren't what he wanted. Its up to you at the end of the day, do all the people that you work with live in flats? We (my firm) wouldn't ask for a lease extension on an 80 year lease, purely because its has sufficient amount of term remaining. Are you absolutely sure you're even going to remain at the property for 5 years? If the lease had only 60-65 years remaining then we would start to ask the questions - infact we have a case at the moment. With regards to the vendor i wouldn't take what the estate agents are saying as gospel, they may not have even asked him so its worth possibly going to see him if you are dead set on it. Plus how do you know that the people he is buying from wouldn't wait for him for find a new buyer? - they may be thinking along the same lines as you, not wasting money etc. I'm not saying you're wrong in what you are doing, if you feel worried about the flat etc but just as someone in this field i would say 80yrs is well sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 Its up to you at the end of the day, do all the people that you work with live in flats? The first time buyers do. Are you absolutely sure you're even going to remain at the property for 5 years? I'd rather move to a property within 2 years. But a nice 2 bed house in Farnborough ... = £150 - £160k ... There's no way I can save a good enough deposit in 2 years. Plus how do you know that the people he is buying from wouldn't wait for him for find a new buyer? - they may be thinking along the same lines as you, not wasting money etc. Though - this is from the Estate Agent. Which we all know shoot the shit their own advantage. But apparently - my vendor's vendor .. was pushing for a sale .. or otherwise he'd rent out the property. Thinking about that now - that could well be rubbish. I'm not saying you're wrong in what you are doing, if you feel worried about the flat etc but just as someone in this field i would say 80yrs is well sufficient. It is interesting - getting 2 sides of it. And I do welcome comments! Honest This is my first time buy .. and I'm just trying to look long-term. Because I can't afford to make a mistake. Bit like going single turbo! You need sound advice from the techie people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 The first time buyers do. I'd rather move to a property within 2 years. But a nice 2 bed house in Farnborough ... = £150 - £160k ... There's no way I can save a good enough deposit in 2 years. Though - this is from the Estate Agent. Which we all know shoot the shit their own advantage. But apparently - my vendor's vendor .. was pushing for a sale .. or otherwise he'd rent out the property. Thinking about that now - that could well be rubbish. It is interesting - getting 2 sides of it. And I do welcome comments! Honest This is my first time buy .. and I'm just trying to look long-term. Because I can't afford to make a mistake. Bit like going single turbo! You need sound advice from the techie people exactly, best to see it from all angles! Let me know if you need any help with anything, just pm me and i'll try and help where i can. BTW if you moved on after this purchase you wouldn't need a deposit as such because deposit would come up the chain from your buyer. If you mean difference between the mortgage and purchase price then i don't know what your circumstances are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 BTW if you moved on after this purchase you wouldn't need a deposit as such because deposit would come up the chain from your buyer. If you mean difference between the mortgage and purchase price then i don't know what your circumstances are. The latter. I doubt I'd be able to afford the additional mortgage repayments for a £150+ Thousand house. Taking into consideration other debt (credit cards) & that Nokia don't pay me enough money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 The latter. I doubt I'd be able to afford the additional mortgage repayments for a £150+ Thousand house. Taking into consideration other debt (credit cards) & that Nokia don't pay me enough money! That is what Equity is for. As you move up you take your equity with you. For example From my first house to my next I made £35K in two years. In my currenlt house I'm sitting on about £75K of equity. So when you move, you move up but if your canny you can keep your mortgage repayments about the same ish and even pay off some debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprasteve Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Clarkey, I work within an Estate Agency as a Mortgage Advisor and i totally agree with everything Charlotte says. Most people tend to start worrying about the length of the lease when it could affect getting a mortgage on it - 50 - 60 yrs remaining. So if your plans are to move when theres 75 years left i can't see this putting potential buyers off (unless they use your solicitor:blink: ). Its sounds like your solicitor is being a little over cautious but thats his job to protect you and the mortgage lender so you can't fault him for that. With regard to the vendor not negotiating with you, well that could be because of a crap in experienced sales negotiator in the estate agency or the fact that the vendor is a complete arse and he's taking it persoanally. Not everyone is like that in fact most people are understanding and if not willing to drop on price theres an obvious reason like they are stretching finances or their mortgage lender have already agreed the absolute max on their purchase but they normally tell you this. Give him time to think about it and hopefully he'll see that he has no other option but to drop the price or he'll loose out. Apart from a cash buyer you are in the best possible position which gives you the advantage and the fact that time is against him too. Try not to get too emotionally attached to the property and stay level headed but if you really like the property then go back to the estate agent and get the branch manager or someone experienced to negotiate with their client as i'm sure they will be keen to tie this deal down again. Also for your information there are lenders that will lend with less than 5% deposit and even lend more than the purchase price! It would be to your advantage to save 5% or even 10% in order to have a larger choice of lender and therefore more competitive rates etc..but not totally necessary. Luckily the market is fairly stable and therefore gives you time to save up quicker than the properties are increasing. If you want any mortgage advise send me a PM. Charlotte are you an estate agent or work for a law firm ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonW Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I bought and sold a leasehold flat. It had 80 years when I bought it and 76 when I sold it. Didn't have any of the issues you have when buying and had no issues whatsoever when selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 Thank you all for your comments!! Most apprieciated. I've tried renegoiating with Vendor - via the Estate Agent. I've asked - "Would the vendor accept £1000 ?" But the vendor was quick to reject that. This guy isn't moving an inch. Perhaps he's waiting for me to fold - just as I'm waiting for him to fold. The estate agent is now writing to all parties to basically say the sale has fallen through. After discussing with my soliciter - my soliciter is writing to the vendor's soliciter saying "We're still considering & will give a final decision by the COB of Monday." My soliciter's exact words were: " When you come to sell .. 75yrs remaining on the lease - is "ok". It's not the best & it's not the worst. But the risk is - when you come to sell - your buyer could be raising the same issues we are now and effect sellerability. However, it might not. Sadly, no-one has a crystal ball. " I'm completely confused as to what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Charlotte are you an estate agent or work for a law firm ? I'm a conveyancer so law firm for my sins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 Please vote!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I'm of no help here, but at first i thought your thread title said "Flat Dancing Shoes"!! I'm gonna go and lie down i think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprasteve Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I'm a conveyancer so law firm for my sins. hmmm interesting. maybe we could do business ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 hmmm interesting. maybe we could do business ? We only really deal with local referrals from estate agents at the mo but hopefully i'm moving on soon so i'll give you a shout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.