Kopite Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 well yes because being 4x4 doesn't harm the environment in the same way that larger cc's do. They use slightly more fuel but no more additional than between tax brackets anyway, so you can discount it effectively. What they seem to be getting at is that they are trying to stop people from buying guzzling 4x4's because people use them as car replacements for shopping/school run etc where that capability is not needed, I am saying that that is not fair on people who have an actual use for them to be penalised because of those people mis-using (if you like) them. I'm not sure I am explaining this very clearly though. Rosie, when you say being 4x4 doesn't harm the environment, are you only talking about 4wd "off roaders" like Land Rovers etc? Or do you mean anything 4WD (cars included) - i'm a bit confused too that's all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 just by being 4x4 doesn't harm the environment whether it's a car or landy does it? But again, if all 4x4s are being penalised where does that leave Audi TT's, Scoobies etc etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Brother Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Forget about all this 4x4 nonsense, the VED rates have got nothing to do with how many driven wheels a car has. Cars registered after 1 March 2001 pay VED on the basis of their CO2 emissions, cars registered before 1 March 2001 on engine capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 SO where did it come from? Was it all press coverage making it sound that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Brother Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Yes, makes for good copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Stamp Duty exemption has been raised to £125k. Great. First time buyers will now be able to afford a beach hut, i suppose its something. That's a fcking joke really isn't it. £125k!!! You can only get something that cheap round here in a "disadvantaged" area which is exempt from SD anyway... He might as well have not bothered changing it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaymdee Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Hang on I think we are talking about different things here- I am saying that farmers/horse owners etc shouldn't be penalised because other people use the vehicals for stuff they weren't mean to do...ie car stuff. try getting a bale of hay in a car- you'll get 1 in there if you're lucky, you need a bigger vehicle - and I am happy as I am sure all horse owners do to pay extra tax if it is done on engine size etc because it is their choice to have horses but to impose it on 4x4's is wrong is what I'm getting at. Sorry SG, wrong end of the stick. I agree that people who need proper 4x4s (I mean Land Rovers etc, not 4x4 cars) should not have to suffer because of the Sloan Ranger brigade who drive their little ones to school in X5's and Cayennes etc. Surely 4x4 doesn't mean cars aswell, although I think 4x4 does raise emissions and lower consumption, but you pay extra tax cause you need more fuel (I know, I've got a Lancia Integrale which gets about 16mpg!!) J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Sorry SG, wrong end of the stick. I agree that people who need proper 4x4s (I mean Land Rovers etc, not 4x4 cars) should not have to suffer because of the Sloan Ranger brigade who drive their little ones to school in X5's and Cayennes etc. J I still feel that the "need" for a horse and therefore the "need" for a 4x4 are fairly subjective though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Parents - there are plenty of cars out there that would do well in safety tests, they are a status symbol nothing else. WTF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisSZ Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I got the impression the hike in tax was aimed at Chelsea tractor drivers who get them instead of a car as a tax dodge (commercial vehicle) - is that not also why they come out highly in safety tests? - they do loads of damage to other vehicles but not to the occupants of the chelsea tractor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 WTF? My comment was that parents don't have to have 4x4s to feel safe, there are plenty of cars out there with good crash ratings besides 4x4s. Which led me to say that 4x4s for parents were probably more of a status symbol than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I still feel that the "need" for a horse and therefore the "need" for a 4x4 are fairly subjective though oops sorry did I say people needed horses, must be a typo somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian R Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I think everyone who works will suffer from the budget unless you are a spunger, because Labour like to take off those that work and give it to the bone idol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Heh, you know you didn't But if you didn't choose to have a horse, you wouldn't have to "need" a 4x4 would you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian R Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 why do you need a 4X4 if you have a horse ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Surely 4x4 doesn't mean cars aswell, although I think 4x4 does raise emissions and lower consumption, but you pay extra tax cause you need more fuel (I know, I've got a Lancia Integrale which gets about 16mpg!!) J My point was, how could you ever distinguish? They would just modify the design to get around whatever the criteria was. Anyway it's beside the point because the tax isn't on 4x4 it is on cc which is how it's always been Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Anyway it's beside the point because the tax isn't on 4x4 it is on cc which is how it's always been But its been fun discussing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Heh, you know you didn't But if you didn't choose to have a horse, you wouldn't have to "need" a 4x4 would you If people didn't choose to be farmers they wouldn't need them either, if we didn't like fast cars we wouldn't need Supras either, so you could say that about anything really... I don't have a 4x4, I don't need one I don't go to shows anymore, and even when I did I always grabbed a lift. Why do I feel like you're saying I'm not allowed to choose to have pets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 But its been fun discussing it yes indeed livened things up around here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Nope I'm not saying that at all, what I'm saying is that we all make choices that cost us money, yet moan about it. They are choices, things we don't have to have/do. Christ I've got two Supras to pay for it costs a fortune but no one makes me have them, its a choice. If I was bothered by the taxes I'd sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 why do you need a 4X4 if you have a horse ???? You don't, some horse owners need a 4x4 because they are effectively farmers- they have to tend land etc but they also compete and cars aren't up to towing 2 or 3 tonnes of horse/dealing with mud/rutted ground. It was just an example of someone that had a geniune need for a 4x4 vehicle ie needed power and needed off road capability that "would" have been discriminated against because the government were (rightly) trying to stop people buying enormous kn*b extentions to pootle about in. Problem is, those that can afford this type of vehicle can pretty much afford any increase in tax anyway so it would just leave the likes of farmers out of pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Nope I'm not saying that at all, what I'm saying is that we all make choices that cost us money, yet moan about it. They are choices, things we don't have to have/do. Christ I've got two Supras to pay for it costs a fortune but no one makes me have them, its a choice. If I was bothered by the taxes I'd sell. Noo no no no sorry that isn't what I meant at all. I was just saying that the idea of taxing 4x4 vehicles directly was ridiculous and would negatively impact challenged groups. I am not grouping horse owners and farmers. As I said, done on cc then fine, but if it had been on 4x4 to try and stop school runs then thats nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian R Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Oh thought Volvo's and Ford Granada's were built for towing that what I used to see pulling Caravans. YES THATS IT TAX CARAVANS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Oh thought Volvo's and Ford Granada's were built for towing that what I used to see pulling Caravans. YES THATS IT TAX CARAVANS try hitching up a huge Ifor trailer to one of those you practically need to jack the rear suspension up as the towing bits don't meet properly/at correct height. Towing a trailer and towing 2 ton round a muddy field are different things! Makes visibility a joke too, it's quite scary actually. I'm all for taxing caravans!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 YES THATS IT TAX CARAVANS Thats the one!!!! Get the slow b*ggers off the road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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