Daston Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Hi guys, Just spent half an hour trying to get it through to my old man that Supras are capible of 1000+hp if you want it and that my NA-T (when i get it) is capable of 450-500. Now he put a question accross that made me wonder, if we can get so much power from a 6 cylender 3L turbo why do F1 teams need V8's to get 700hp that only last 2 races and why do Touring car only use 500hp I put across the power to weight ratio and that having a light car with 1000hp wasnt very easy on handling any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 well F1 teams are N/A and to strict regulations too... and just cause it's a V8 / 10 / 12, the cc's are similar... touring cars, smaller lighter engines all about max handling + they are limited to that power bracket anyway? Nothing tunes quick like a turbo'd car with a massively strong engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian R Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 and Supra's tend not to top out at 17k rpm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daston Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 thats what I thought, will be sending some rolling road vids to him tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Tell your dad that F1 used to have 1200bhp 1.5 litre turbocharged engines (just under 1500bhp in qualifying) but were banned for being far to fast, so they went back to 3.5 litre engines, having a choice of cylinders. Ford used a V8, Ferrari and Lamborghini used V12's and everyone else used V10's- eventually everyone opted for V10's before the rules stipulated that the engine must be a V10. Also for touring cars weren't there power limits of 300bhp for the BTCC after the 500bhp Cossies were banned? Think AMLS cars are limited to 650bhp regardless of induction method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Also, engine longevity in F1 doesn't matter- in the old days of V10's for one race, a BMW engineer said you want it as light as possible- if it lasts too long, then weight is being carried around- idealy you want an F1 engine to blow up as it takes the chequered flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jspec Germany Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 F1 cars are now V8s for the 06 season save the Minardi/Red Bull team (detuned and rev-limited V10 due to finances). Does you father claim to know a lot about cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daston Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 hes an Engineering manager and builds cars as a hoby so he knows a fair bit but not on the turbo side of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jspec Germany Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I see. Time to get him learned up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daston Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 yeah I think its sometimes hard to believe how strong the Supra block is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jspec Germany Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I didn't believe it at first either. Never heard of another motor with such strong internals stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Think Chevy LTx and LSx engines are pretty strong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Yeah Gaz, with a bit of nitrous they can be made to go very very quick, very cheaply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Although dirt cheap to tweek over there, they aren't *that* cheap to tweek over here. It'd be interesting to compare a stock LS1 vs stock Euro, JDM and USA spec 2JZ engines and see how much it'd cost per bhp gained as they get tuned to higher and higher bhp & torque levels.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Nothings cheap here, limited market pushes the prices up I guess. In the US they get very quick cars with minor bolt ons, like exhaust system, headers and cams, with NOS = low 11 sec cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Nothings cheap here, limited market pushes the prices up I guess. That, plus import tax and vat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doughie Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 if we can get so much power from a 6 cylender 3L turbo why do F1 teams need V8's to get 700hp that only last 2 races Well bottom line is F1 engines are now limited to 2.4ltrs, and they have to be naturally-aspirated. no turbo's, no superchargers. Try getting 700bhp out of a road-going 2.4ltr naturally-aspirated engine. Absolute max. you might get would be about 250bhp and that's a very highly tuned engine. Only way F1 engines can get 750bhp out of such a small engine is .... revs. They're going over 20,000rpm now this year. That makes a sports-roadbike look low revving. Torque on an F1 car is "relatively" low though. I think with the 3.0ltr engines it was about 350lb ft. of torque. Now with these 2.4ltr engines it'll very likely be less than 300lb ft of torque. So it's a true statment that a stock Supra TT has more peak *torque* than a current state-of-the-art F1 engine. (stock UK TT is i think 320lb ft max torque). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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