Nick Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 I'm looking for a favour really... I'm seriously considering a set of HKS 2835 + the necessaries but before I spend the money I need to know if I can live with the lag and want to know exactly what I'll be getting for my money performance wise. Has anyone got a big single/twin on a manual and can spare 1/2hour??? Justin was a top man and took me out for a spin in his last night but his is an auto and is only running 1bar at the moment, need to get more of an idea.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 What, no one at all?? Or has everyone got auto's.... Oh go on, pleeeaaaasssseee.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 You can get a pretty good idea of the lag from a medium single setup by converting to true-twin operation instead of a single. Well, what I've read of TTC matches pretty well with the powerband I've seen from my car running a medium single. I would offer you a ride but 1) It's a Mk3 2) It's in bits I think the two may be related . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 I used to run the true twin setup and I wouldn't call it laggy, certainly not as responsive as sequential but then I've got ceramic turbos and the VVT-i helps a fair bit... I'm told the 2835's spool up at around 4200rpm where as the single's are around 4600rpm (someone correct me if I'm talking boll*cks) depending on size. I want to experience what it's like to drive around town and what it's like when you open it up before spending the cash... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 I beleive there are turbos on market that would give a maximum of approx 570bhp but would be fully on song by 3800 - 4000rpm, which is pretty damn good and would also get you pretty far down the track before the big ones have spun up Its upto personal preference and what you intend to use it for, I would prefer a smaller single as this would be much better on track out of corners etc, a large turbo is better suited to long straights like drag racing and top speed events. :flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 I've got a 67GTQ, .68a/r, standard ignition map, full boost at or before 4000rpm even in the lower gears. Perfectly usable under normal road conditions IMO, the US guys are getting 650rwhp from that turbo at 2bar boost on 116 octane fuel. I don't want anywhere near that much power, but it will move that much air if required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 I'd go for a single in my experience, thats what I did and have never looked back. I just upgraded my single turbo up to a larger jobbie, full boost is in by 4200rpm, thats 650bhp+ approx. I use to run a smaller single(still got it here if needed) that was on full boost by 3700rpm and gave a very driveable 580bhp. Definately the way to go, give me a ring if you want to talk figures. O and mine is a manual. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 Thanks for the input guys... Paul - So you wasn't tempted to go for the 2835's then? General opinion is that they can produce the power of a big single with less lag, be it at a price...How do you find driving it on the road, unusable unless you have a long straight...? Are you going to any meets in the near future? If I go ahead I'll be asking ChrisW to fit the necessaries and his MOTEC man to set it up as I want to retain the VVT-i....If you can give me a good deal on the turbos.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by Adam W I've got a 67GTQ, .68a/r, standard ignition map, full boost at or before 4000rpm even in the lower gears. Perfectly usable under normal road conditions IMO, the US guys are getting 650rwhp from that turbo at 2bar boost on 116 octane fuel. I don't want anywhere near that much power, but it will move that much air if required. Adam, I am also thinking of going for the T67 GTQ HO --.68 a/r.. Does yours come with the anti surge compressor housing? Does it whistle loud? Again will I be able to get full boost by 4000 RPM? MKIV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Nope, had mine before the antisurge thing took off. You shouldn't need one on a turbo that small anyway. Sounds like a jetplane on fll boost, can't hear the exhaust over the turbo whistle, so yeah, it's pretty loud Nick: The GT Twins will be MORE laggy than most single setups, certainly no gains to be had from all the dyno sheets I've seen. Although each turbo is half the size, it's only hooked up to half the cylinders so has half the exhaust energy to drive it. I haven't wound the boost up on mine yet but you get a smooth, fast rise in the power band as the turbo spools up, rather than the abrupt kick of a second turbo being "switched on" by the ECU. Drivability: if you're worried about traction problems then RLTC is your answer, but as long as you're not afraid to work the gearbox then keeping the car in the powerband round the twisties isn't an issue. The only place mine feels "dead" is coming out of a tight hairpin at the bottom of a steep hill on my way home from work. 2nd gear = wheelpsin coming out of the corner and not much forward progress, 3rd gear left me struggling along at 2000rpm up a steep hill with no boost. The answer would be to use 2nd but modulate the throttle a bit, but I haven't had chance to practise much yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 OHHH!! The sound of the anti surge whistle is unbelievable sounds like a jet engine :D 4 those who havent heard it I have added the links below -- http://www.speedtoys.com/~daveh/93na-t/10.69.wmv http://www.speedtoys.com/~daveh/93na-t/10.23lo.wmv http://www.apexi-us.com/others/Videos/t51rsupra_vs_351mustang.mpeg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted October 23, 2003 Author Share Posted October 23, 2003 Adam, Different people have different opinions on which setup has more lag, some say big singles, some say the twins. At the end of the day it relies heavily on how it's setup, which is why I'm trying to ponce a ride so I can get a feel for things Traction isn't something I'm worried about too much, it's the lag and the way the setup makes the power. Sure, I'll adapt my driving style to suit but I don't want a setup that fully kicks in at 4500rpm and runs out of steam at 6000rpm...The T67 on yours sounds good, spools up fairly quick, smooth deliverly and plently of power.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 The good thing about going for a single is that there are loads of sizes available, from 3400rpm/500bhp up to 5000rpm/900bhp, and swapping between them is pretty easy. With the twins, you're stuck with what HKS offer, which is pretty limited. I don't think you could go smaller than the 2835's if they are too laggy for you. Plus, a single setup costs half as much, and there is half as much to go wrong! No-brainer IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Single turbo kits are far more versatile than the twins as Adam says your pretty much limited with the twins....... GO SINGLE:D T67GTQ HO The best response with big power!!! JET SOUND!!!:flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Packaging too, a single is easier to fit and work on. Stop all this talk, you're tempting me again -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinL Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Originally posted by Adam W The good thing about going for a single is that there are loads of sizes available, from 3400rpm/500bhp up to 5000rpm/900bhp, and swapping between them is pretty easy. With the twins, you're stuck with what HKS offer, which is pretty limited. I don't think you could go smaller than the 2835's if they are too laggy for you. Plus, a single setup costs half as much, and there is half as much to go wrong! No-brainer IMHO You can change the exhaust housings I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weka Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 My friend has a MKIV with 2835 turbos. Also he's a manual as well. I'm very certain he can give you a demo if you are willing to come up to SE London. He is not on this forum, but can PM me and I'll ask him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Tempted yes but when I found out what there like I went straight off them. I use my car for track days mainly and wanted to keep some kind of low down power, with the stage 1 setup it was less laggy than a stock setup(with uprated boost), very very useable in other words and huge fun. With the stage 2+ turbo its a little laggier yes but then I've fitted racier cams, modded head which will move the power up top a bit also. It now pulls very very hard all the way to redline. I'm going to be taking my car off the road pretty soon for the winter, got a few more mods planned.... I've sent you an e-mail about the prices... Cheers Originally posted by Nick Thanks for the input guys... Paul - So you wasn't tempted to go for the 2835's then? General opinion is that they can produce the power of a big single with less lag, be it at a price...How do you find driving it on the road, unusable unless you have a long straight...? Are you going to any meets in the near future? If I go ahead I'll be asking ChrisW to fit the necessaries and his MOTEC man to set it up as I want to retain the VVT-i....If you can give me a good deal on the turbos.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted October 23, 2003 Author Share Posted October 23, 2003 Weka - you have pm Is the T67 GTQ a modified Greddy T67 kit?? Would it also be able to handle the abuse of a sustained 2hours of 120mph-180mph (except stops for petrol!!) on the autobahn....? That's something ChrisW pointed out, some of these single/twin kits wouldn't take that sort of treatment but are perfectly reliable for drag racing or a track days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Doesn't that come down to adequate fuelling and cooling? If you run your injectors at say 75-80% duty cycle what at maximum load and the fuel pump is kosher, then they will do that all day. A big FMIC blocking the radiator is the biggest problem CW has mentioned to me so part of my single turbo upgrade package would be to fit one of his superdupersupraradiators. Sounds like the drivability of a big single isn't really an issue, as with the sequential system I have an artificial lag to 4000rpm and then some as the 2nd turbo spins up, so full boost by 4000rpm would be perfectly acceptable to me. Motec, mapping, HKS DLI, radiator, clutch, injectors and possibly fuel rail, plus of course a T67GTQ and complete fitting kit, job done Just need the £7000 or so to buy it all with now, sob. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 When you are on the motorway cruising your car will be in vacumm and near 1 atomsphere not in boost, like ian said its prob most of the bolt ons around the turbo kit that cause the issue not the turbo. :flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Originally posted by Wez When you are on the motorway cruising your car will be in vacumm and near 1 atomsphere not in boost, like ian said its prob most of the bolt ons around the turbo kit that cause the issue not the turbo. :flame Dev You ever checked your boost gauge at a steady 150mph? -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Originally posted by Ian C You ever checked your boost gauge at a steady 150mph? -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Greddy make the T78 and T88 kits for the MkIV, I think they do a twin TD05 as well. I believe their turbos are made by mitsubishi. The 61, 63, 67 turbos you hear about are garrett units, there is a much wider range to choose from both in compressor wheel size and exhaust housing size if you go for a garret unit. The big supplier is an american company called Sound Performance, but I went with http://www.boostlogic.com for my turbo. Lar at SP is a good guy but he is just SO busy he can be really hard to get hold of and get any info out of. Kean at boostlogic is a good guy, fantastic customer service, and answered all of my thousands of emails very promptly. There are lots of different manifolds available, SP and BL both have their own fabricators, never did much research cos it's not really applicable to me, but from what I've seen/heard the quality shouldn't be an issue from any of the reputable suppliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted October 23, 2003 Author Share Posted October 23, 2003 Ian - Yep, I'll be getting one of those rads as soon as they're available Adam - Thanks for the info, I'll have a look at the site... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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