Gazboy Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 I think it's kind of futile (bordering to embarrassing) trying to flog an auto as a 'sports' platform. The smaller number of gears, coupled with the inherent losses of a torque converter don't help either. Agreed to a point. I do feel removed SLIGHTLY because of the auto box. I think it desperately needs to be a five speeder, as the jump from third to fourth is too great for the stock car imo- I bet that AMG seven speeder is awesome. Third itself has a decent reach though, and a gear length like that really suits the power delivery of the stock car, again imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 I have had both an auto (in the early days) and a 6 speed as standard and personally I think the Auto is a much better car to drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 ... A BPU auto Supra will out 0-60 a manual of similar power every time. Are you going tomorrow to Boxhill? I wouldn't mind learning the odd techique, if you are prepared to share it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Ok, 1) we can all agree that the 'engines' are the same manual or auto. 2) that the transmission losses are higher in an auto 3) and therefore given infinite grip and a person capable of changing gear manually as quick as the auto, the Manual will be quicker to 60, 1/4 mile whatever. (hence the Toyota statement of a faster time) Real world is somewhat different from my experience and observation of others. Identical powered cars, one manual and one auto, at Pod and i'd say that you'd be waiting quite sometime for a manual win. This may be down to the often poor grip levels at pod, but i just think its very hard to be in a drag situation and with the adrenalin pumping, to produce quick changes with throttle control that doesn't spin up the rears but also doesn't bog down the turbos. One slip up and the auto, with its ability to provide consistent power/acceleration without wheel spin will pull away. TCLicense's point about the auto box is valid and should serve as a useful reminder to engage manual mode or '2' if you are going for it (something i suspect few auto owners do, me included) I'm not auto baised as the only auto's i've had have been because there wasn't a manual version (TT aerotop and now the Aristo) and i like the manual for many of the reasons stated above, but are they quicker launching? for me i'd say no...........the potential is there (if you're good and brutal! enough) but the conditions are not often there to let you eek out the manuals higher power to the wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 1) we can all agree that the 'engines' are the same manual or auto. Not if you've got a VVTi I find it very amusing that everyone dismisses the tip function so quickly. I'm going to video me using mine and I'm sure you'll alter your perceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 How clever is the tiptronc pete? Say if you're approaching a corner, can you say hit downshift as you start braking and it will downshift when the revs allow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 How clever is the tiptronc pete? Say if you're approaching a corner, can you say hit downshift as you start braking and it will downshift when the revs allow?Nope. It'll just beep at you if you try to make an inappropriate downshift. It'll do what you said if you move the gearshift lever - same as the regular auto does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Ok, 3) and therefore given infinite grip and a person capable of changing gear manually as quick as the auto, the Manual will be quicker to 60, 1/4 mile whatever. (hence the Toyota statement of a faster time) Correct in a NA vehicle. In a turbo, even if gearchange is as fast (a hard task). You still lose boost on the change, while the auto can hold boost on gearchange. John, sorry, I will not be there. Auto for me: Leave in 'D', press brakes HARD, and rev as high as you can (2.5-3k). Do it quick, no more than 2-3 seconds. This allows you to leave the line in boost (not the same as launching a manual at 3k etc). I suggest you get yourself a Gtech Pro RR, or a AP22, both excellent for such tasks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 How clever is the tiptronc pete? Say if you're approaching a corner, can you say hit downshift as you start braking and it will downshift when the revs allow? Both tip and normal auto will not change down if the revs would go past redline. ie, if you change down to 2nd at 110mph via gearlever, it will hold 3rd until it is safe to drop to 2nd. Is this what you meant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Correct in a NA vehicle. In a turbo, even if gearchange is as fast (a hard task). You still lose boost on the change, while the auto can hold boost on gearchange. Dumb question: How does it do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 ... I suggest you get yourself a Gtech Pro RR, or a AP22, both excellent for such tasks. I have an AP22 dude, with lots of downloads from various configurations and cars even (same road) Can you believe it that with stock TC 'on' I often get better figures even up to 100mph? sheeeesh... I'm not keen to take the TC fuse off, don't know how long the box will last with changes as harsh as that. In my acceleration tests in the summer it didn't make a massive difference anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Have you got a time figure for how quickly it goes 0-30 John? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Nope. It'll just beep at you if you try to make an inappropriate downshift. It'll do what you said if you move the gearshift lever - same as the regular auto does. I've never had mine beep at me. Not sure I dare try it either! It is intelligent enough to shift if you completely forget you left it in MANU though. (as I have done before now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Have you got a time figure for how quickly it goes 0-30 John? Since standing starts are not quick, I don't bother with them, not worth stressing the transmission. I just keep it in 'D' and go full throttle, this gives very repeatable results (even though the 0-30 figures are rubbish). I usually work with the 10mph increments from 40mph upwards, they are less dependent on traction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Have you not done any standing starts? You said in an earlier post that you could not achieve sub-5 second 0-60, you have got to try first! What are you achieving for 60-100 times? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 0-60 is a straight 6sec on the road I use, with just full throttle. Horrible. My previous car would do it in less than 5 secs with less power (but 4wd and 6sp box) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 How did you launch previous car (Calibra?)? Why not try using the technique I suggested. It will not damage the gearbox in the slightest unless you do it several times in a row, and hold for 5+ seconds. Which would overheat the trans fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 How did you launch previous car (Calibra?)? The way you launch a manual, lol... drop clutch at 3000rpm roughly, all 4 wheels will just about spin for a sec. (that would be a brutal launch though, wouldn't do too many of those) My 'test' road is slightly uphill and has a mild right turn, so the accelerometer will always show worse figures compared to a dead straight flat. But mine is close nearby and reasonably secluded with not much traffic. Difference of around 0.5sec in a 0-100 run. Why not try using the technique I suggested. It will not damage the gearbox in the slightest unless you do it several times in a row, and hold for 5+ seconds. Which would overheat the trans fluid. I tried powerbraking a few times and the results were always worse. Even with the TC fuse pulled out. Either I'm too scared of blowing the torque converter or something's amiss. On motorway straights it does 0-100 in less than 10secs, so the power is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Have you got a velocity/time graph of one of the 0-100 runs? Does seem very odd it can't get a much better 0-60. The numbers don't seem to add up, if it takes 6seconds to 60 and less than 10 to do 0-100, it leaves less than 4 seconds to go 60-100, I doubt a BPU car could do that. Not without the US-style set-to-kill setup of race fuel + silly boost. Or hybrids........??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Have you got a velocity/time graph of one of the 0-100 runs? I've got nothing on the laptop I'm using now Does seem very odd it can't get a much better 0-60. this is with just just full throttle and the lever in 'D' Even stock it was exactly the same, you can feel that it takes at least a second to 'wake up'. I'm not sure if it's me chickening out at the launches or something is not right with the autobox. I doubt a BPU car could do that. Not without the US-style set-to-kill setup of race fuel + silly boost. Or hybrids........??? it's faster than BPU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Faster due to hybrids or??? Hybrids would make a lot of sense, the greater lag slowing launches and giving the topend speed you claim. Have you got any data on shift times? 'D' + powerbrake is the best way to launch an auto Supra AFAIK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Faster due to hybrids or??? Hybrids would make a lot of sense, the greater lag slowing launches and giving the topend speed you claim. Nah, that would be too easy;) at low boost they behave like stock with more poke though at 2Krpm upwards and at high boost they behave like hybrids on steroids. It's not a power-delivery issue, more like a transmission thing. There is a full second of relative idleness from a standing start. Have you got any data on shift times?. no, haven't bothered, since the shifts themselves feel fine. The box feels fine as well, it's got fresh fluid etc, extra UK rad, can't complain. It's probably the monkey behind the wheel at fault:rolleyes: 'D' + powerbrake is the best way to launch an auto Supra AFAIK. Yeah, I've been told this before. I guess I'll have to put my fears aside and give it some hell. Would it work well with the TC just turned off from the cabin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 John, how much quicker is yours than a regular BPU car? I think that moment of idleness is the torque converter waking up, as mine does that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 John, really will need you to eirther do some proper runs and report back, or throw up some data logging before I or anyone else could possibly comment further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Need4Speed Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 The manual's advantage is the ability to hold a gear and balance the throttle in a corner. Remember, the Supe was designed as an auto... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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