Terminator Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 WARNING TO ALL RLTC USERS I have had several users writing to me to tell me about apparent poor slip control on bends. The dat is fine but the wheel allocations from the 180 degree configuration drive is full of errors. The configuration drive looks like it is completed successfully and most of the time RL feels like it is working OK but in extreme conditions things go wrong especially on bends. If you are in any doubt about your cars cornering ability especially in the wet send me your dat file or connect up your car to a laptop jack the car up and spin the wheels to physically check the allocation of the wheels. So far three people have contacted me with the same problem. There no other common factor as far as I can tell. If in doubt check it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyJawa Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Phil, Does that count for the one you recently sent me? Its getting uploaded tomorrow.... Cheers Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted September 5, 2003 Author Share Posted September 5, 2003 There is nothing I can do to help, with this, my dats are fine, tried and tested by many. All faults with RL have come down to installation or failure to assign wheels and the odd faulty unit. The dats I send don't have wheel allocation set. Every install of RL is different. When you connect up to the ABS sensor wires the RL unit learns where the signals are coming from when you do the 180 degree drive. The problem seems to be that some of these configuration drives give the impression that they are successful. RL is so good even with duff information it still work reasonably. The trouble is when you really need it to work properly it can’t. The only way to make 100% sure is to spin the wheels on axel stands while monitoring on a computer, then you will know for sure which connection is which. I don’t want to give the impression this is a big problem but of the 50 cars to which I have supplied dats, three have had problems with wheel allocation using the 180 degree drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyJawa Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Gotcha! Ok, just have to hope the boys do a good job tomorrow then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Phil, you say that this can be down to installation, were would you recomend I get mine installed, at Torque, or would you be willing to do it, for a handsome fee of course. Im planning on getting mine installed next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doughie Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Originally posted by Terminator There is nothing I can do to help, with this, my dats are fine, tried and tested by many. All faults with RL have come down to installation or failure to assign wheels and the odd faulty unit. The dats I send don't have wheel allocation set. Every install of RL is different. When you connect up to the ABS sensor wires the RL unit learns where the signals are coming from when you do the 180 degree drive. The problem seems to be that some of these configuration drives give the impression that they are successful. RL is so good even with duff information it still work reasonably. The trouble is when you really need it to work properly it can’t. The only way to make 100% sure is to spin the wheels on axel stands while monitoring on a computer, then you will know for sure which connection is which. I don’t want to give the impression this is a big problem but of the 50 cars to which I have supplied dats, three have had problems with wheel allocation using the 180 degree drive. A bit of an educated guess, but it may be that the people who have had problems with RLTC assigning wheels etc *may* be because when they did the 180degree setup routine, they mayt not have done a tight enough turn. Obviously the tighter the turn you do, the greater the rotational speed difference between the outside wheels compared to the inside wheels. I would imagine that there if you do a too large a 180 degree turn, the difference between the rotational speeds of the wheels wouldn't be big enough for RLTC to detect or it may simply get a bit confused. just a guess. I would recommend these people to repeat the 180degree setup routine, making a TIGHT turn (perhaps rather more than 180degrees, why not do a 360 degree in a car park or something ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted September 6, 2003 Author Share Posted September 6, 2003 Good advice there Stu, and easy to do too! At least one of the people who contacted had the car "set up" by and installer:eek: As I said before, checking the dat will show if you have your system allocated to four wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I must admit int the wet RLTC doesnt seem as good as I have read about it,like the other day I had to correct the back end exiting a round about at 45mph ish - which I assumed RLTC would sort out (on wet setting) - so I think I need to check the wheels If you are in any doubt about your cars cornering ability especially in the wet send me your dat file or connect up your car to a laptop jack the car up and spin the wheels to physically check the allocation of the wheels I dont have any axel stands but I presume I can do these one at a time by jacking the car up and doing one wheel at a time (?) The only way to make 100% sure is to spin the wheels on axel stands while monitoring on a computer Do I monitor these under the"wheels speed sensor" tab? in grahams app I really think my RLTC is not set up properly - its seems great in the dry but I thought it would have done more for me in the wet. Termy should I send you the dat file before I do the above dude ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Far like the other day I had to correct the back end exiting a round about at 45mph ish was that a problem or was it FUN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted September 8, 2003 Author Share Posted September 8, 2003 Originally posted by Scooter Far was that a problem or was it FUN! I guess that would depend on whether it was desired at the time. If it was set to wet you should not have had a problem at 45mph. It is very hard to spin the wheels in a correctly installed and set up RL system when set to wet. The system would react long before you had time to correct anything. All I can do by seeing your dat is tell if the wheel allocations look correct. Spinning the wheels one at a time is the only way to really check. .You may need to drop the minimum threshold speed to make it easier to do. It is set at 14KPH as standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 was that a problem or was it FUN! LOL - na mate wasnt desired but was fun none the less ¬! Spinning the wheels one at a time is the only way to really check. Where do I check that these are set-up correctly ? - using grahams app presumably but what will tell me they are set-up correctly ? And if there not do I just redoo the configuration run ? Shall I not just redoo the config run anyway ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted September 9, 2003 Author Share Posted September 9, 2003 When you drive the configuration run, the RL unit picks up signals from the ABS sensors. The unit can work out which wheel is which by comparing the speed of the wheels as you comer, when you go on to the straight an all wheels are at the same speed it fixes the wheel settings to memory and signals that the run was successful. In a very few cases and for reasons yet unknown, the unit signals that the run is successful but the wheels are not allocated correctly. By spinning the wheels by hand, using Grahams app you should see channel leave a trace as the wheel is spun, these should correspond to the ticks in the wheel allocation boxes in your dat. You can just do the configuration drive again, I had to do mine twice to get it to signal the configuration was complete. It can take a while to trust the RL unit, especially if you have had a different form of TC or no TC before, RL is so subtle sometimes, there is no way to know it is acting. Working at over 40 times a second there is no way you will perceive this if it only takes one or two actions to reduce the slip back into acceptable levels for the dial position you have selected. With good tires I hardly ever notice mine cut in unless I am really trying, I tend to use 20% and 15% most of the time so it allows a fair bit of slip anyway. IMHO it is good to get the feel of the car with out TC or with TC on a high setting. I see TC as being there as a back up for unforeseen circumstances or conditions, not to help me drive the car. A WOT 0-100 test on a test track is recommended for testing RL. No criticism of anyone’s driving intend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Cheers Phil - thats great advice,I will try all this and leave some feedback as to whats happended. F A R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerotop Dave Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Great. I have all this to look forward to... *Eyes RLTC sitting in box next to me...* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted September 11, 2003 Author Share Posted September 11, 2003 Most installations are fine so don’t worry. You have the support of very experienced users on here too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Gonna be doing the calibration run again tonight - just reading the "calibration procedure" section in the manual it states in section 3 "plug the calibration adaptor into the diagnostic lead" I dont ever remember having a calibration adaptor ! could this be the reason why my installer hasnt been able to complete the calibration run correctly ? Anyone know what this looks like ? - as without it the system cannot go into calibration mode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 It's a little black plastic thing, looks like a 9 pin serial plug (which it is!) without a wire coming out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted September 11, 2003 Author Share Posted September 11, 2003 Originally posted by far ! could this be the reason why my installer hasnt been able to complete the calibration run correctly ? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 B*stard ! how the hell did he manage to say it was all working then ? I checked with the lap top and it was picking up wheel speeds and revs and also picked up on which wheels where ref / driven and it seems to work in the dry - weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted September 12, 2003 Author Share Posted September 12, 2003 He could have spun the wheels to pick up signals fro the senders. It is the only other way I know of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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