far Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 OK last night was the first time I have driven in any significant rain, still felt tail slip on 2nd turbo when accelerating onto a (open & clear) motorway - so Question 1 ) Can any RLTC drivers comment if they still feel a slip in heavy rain with RLTC set to wet - I presume the slip would be greater without RLTC and it is still controlling my beast(ooer !) Q2) Trac fuse has been removed,trac control switch was off and the orange light was on - when the car slipped I notived that the Green "traction control on" light flashed on for about 2 seconds.Is this common? surely it shouldnt do that if the trac fuse has been removed ? When the system was installed Termies .dat file was uploaded and Grahams app confirmed everything seemed to be working under the monitor tab - revs where being monitored etc...So I presume the installation is ok - also the LED when checked last night was flashing according to revs etc... Am I just being extra paronoid as usual and everything is ok ? or is something wrong ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 I've had RLTC on both auto and Manual TT's and IMO it works better with the auto. The system still works very well with the manual car, but I've noticed it does slip a little more. Possibly due to the auto's gearing being longer and less jerky changes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Or maybe your right foot is getting heavier Matt.!? My 'wet' setting is more like 'snow' setting. I've not managed to get it to slip at all. I use dry setting in the rain, its nice to feel the car move about a little bit. Then I'll switch to 'wet' if its really heavy rain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 My 'wet' setting is more like 'snow' setting. I've not managed to get it to slip at all. Cheers guys so something is wrong with my set-up or something ? ....er anyone seen termy around today ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 In the wet setting you should get very little slip, system allows 0% on corners, you will still get a 5% slip allowance in a straight line before the system will cut in. You can reduce the straight line over ride if you don't like the feel of the 5% in the wet. But other adjustments are limited to the dry 10% and 15% settings. Send me a copy of your internal dat and I can check it for you just to make sure everything is as I sent it. I have done a 1-100mph WOT wet test in standing water on a private test track and it felt comfortable and controllable all the way to the top. The same test carried out with stock TC caused the car to spin at 40mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Originally posted by Matt Harwood I've had RLTC on both auto and Manual TT's and IMO it works better with the auto. The system still works very well with the manual car, but I've noticed it does slip a little more. Possibly due to the auto's gearing being longer and less jerky changes? Matt if you want to play, we could tune it more to the 6 speed. All my developmental work has been on auto's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 Cheers termy - I will send you the dat file - its on the lappy so will get onto this tonight ! cheers again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinL Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 I think mine was set up by Term at 1% for wet. The car squirms a little during hard acceleration in the wet, no problem once you get use to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 cheers gavin The car squirms a little during hard acceleration in the wet my back end does drift too not just squirm ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyJawa Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Hi Phil - just wondered if we're on for the file for when the RLTC gets fitted a week on Sat? Thanks for that BTW. Well last night was "fun" on the greasey roads with the stock TC - flipping heck its awful. Straight line, half throttle, TC kicked in, took all power and wouldn't go off for ages so in the end I turned it off and back on again. Yet earlier last night totally sideways it didn't kick in at all......... All recovered though so no probs there! Will be nice to have the RLTC though One Q. Last night really showed up that the tyres put on when it arrived in this country are ok in the dry, but terrible, utterly terrible in the wet as the car should be able to traverse roundabouts at more than 5mph without the backend going out surely....... (similar to the Avon ZZ1's I had on the scoob when I bought it). Now I'm not replacing all the tyres as I haven't got the cash at the mo! so when the RLTC is fitted I assume it will account for these crap tyres purely in it not allowing slip. So, for example. If I've got crap tyres and they lose traction in the wet on a corner at 15mph, the RLTC will cut in but if I had F1's or whatever that grip much better would let go at say 30, the RLTC would kick in then? Thus the RLTC would cut in directly related to when the wheels and hence tyres let go......... What a load of waffle and even to myself I'm saying it must do but clarification is always good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Originally posted by Terminator Matt if you want to play, we could tune it more to the 6 speed. All my developmental work has been on auto's. I wouldn't mind taking you up on that one day Phil. The set-up on the auto was superb, it'd be nice to get the manual working the same... Don't get me wrong though, it's still very good and impressive, just not quite as predictable/reliable as it was on the auto. I used to be more than happy flooring it off of a roundabout, not quite so confident now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willson Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 I've got Termi's file on a six speed and it's fantastic ! I know when it's working hard (hard cut?) because you can hear the backfiring. RLTC > * ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulse Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Originally posted by HISUPE One Q. Last night really showed up that the tyres put on when it arrived in this country are ok in the dry, but terrible, utterly terrible in the wet as the car should be able to traverse roundabouts at more than 5mph without the backend going out surely....... (similar to the Avon ZZ1's I had on the scoob when I bought it). Now I'm not replacing all the tyres as I haven't got the cash at the mo! so when the RLTC is fitted I assume it will account for these crap tyres purely in it not allowing slip. Traction control can only maximize available grip, not give you more grip than your car has. Crap tyres will still provide crap grip on RLTC, just RLTC will work harder (and as you say will cut in at much lower speeds/RPM) to try and sort it out for you. If you have 0 grip, even RLTC can't sort that out -p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 Neil - i think its time for some F1 GSDII's try http://www.blackcirles.com - very cheap and great customer service ! All - I think reading this different people seem to have different experiences of how RLTC has worked for them and - I personally cant here or feel the injector cuts - I thought you are not supposed to here it >? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 The louder the exhaust, the more you'll hear the cut. Adding to what I said earlier, just to save confusion. If I'd never experienced RLTC before, I would have said it was excellent in the manual. It's only because my auto used to be better, that I've made the above comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyJawa Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Phil - cheers for the files mate - just picked them up Far - not likely mate, would be GSD3's But I ain't got the spare cash at the mo to spend a fortune on tyres, so I'll have to make do with what they put on. Would rather make sure the boost issue is sorted first, don't want the engine going bang! Just means I gotta slow down a bit in the wet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 yeah true - I meant gsdIII's not II'S DOh They should be ok anyway and when you get the F1's then you will like a pro-driver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Originally posted by far Q2) Trac fuse has been removed,trac control switch was off and the orange light was on - when the car slipped I notived that the Green "traction control on" light flashed on for about 2 seconds.Is this common? surely it shouldnt do that if the trac fuse has been removed ? There's no way the green light should come on with trac off, let alone with the fuse removed. In fact, doesn't the "trac off" light flash when you've removed the fuse ? It did on mine, but mine is a facelift which has the updated trac system (it has snow mode). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 There's no way the green light should come on with trac off, let alone with the fuse removed. In fact, doesn't the "trac off" light flash when you've removed the fuse ? It did on mine, but mine is a facelift which has the updated trac system (it has snow mode). Cheers for this Simon,could it be that the two systems are conflicting then ? what can I do to check this - the guy who fitted it said he had removed the trac fuse which is the fuse the next to the ABS fuses right ? in a box on the left(if you are stood facing the car) - should I plug my laptop in and see if its still monitoring the wheels & revs etc ? Oh yes and with the trac fuse removed the light doesnt come on unless I press the swtich to turn off the trac control manually - but am I right in thinking that if stock TC and RLTC where on at the same time I wouldn't get very far and the engine would just cut out ? (remember reading this somewhere). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyJawa Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Originally posted by far yeah true - I meant gsdIII's not II'S DOh They should be ok anyway and when you get the F1's then you will like a pro-driver He he! Thought you did but couldn't resist! £440 for a full set - not to bad I guess, but with plugs, maybe boost controller needed its an expense that will have to wait since the ones on are practically new! LOL @ pro driver - I wish!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 The way RLTC works is progressive. With small amounts of slip only a small cut is induced, so you are less likely to hear it. If you have major slip the system will cut big time to try to bring you progressively back to less and less cut and finally no cut. You only really hear and feel it on the higher cut levels. This assumes all is working correctly. Duff tires will cause RLTC to work overtime. It can never give you more grip than your tires are capable of, it just keeps you this side of your break away point what ever that happens to be. There is no substitute for good rubber, there is no point in sticking a car with super car performance on budget tires IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Originally posted by far Cheers for this Simon,could it be that the two systems are conflicting then ? what can I do to check this - the guy who fitted it said he had removed the trac fuse which is the fuse the next to the ABS fuses right ? in a box on the left(if you are stood facing the car) - should I plug my laptop in and see if its still monitoring the wheels & revs etc ? Oh yes and with the trac fuse removed the light doesnt come on unless I press the swtich to turn off the trac control manually - but am I right in thinking that if stock TC and RLTC where on at the same time I wouldn't get very far and the engine would just cut out ? (remember reading this somewhere). With the fuse removed you shouldn't have to switch the thing off - the trac light should just flash. Drives you mad until you take the bulb out . Dunno which fuse it is off the top of my head though - I'll have a look tomorrow. If they were both on you wouldn't get the engine cutting out - probably the RLTC would cut in first (on wet mode anyway), then if the slip got too high you'd get the stock one confusing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 The Trac fuse is in the main box behind the battery, it is clearly labelled. The two systems can run together but you still get the same major power cut problem once the stock system cuts in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 Originally posted by GavinL I think mine was set up by Term at 1% for wet. The car squirms a little during hard acceleration in the wet, no problem once you get use to it I am with Gavin here, it is good to feel things happening, if we made the system to "tight” it would sanitise the driving experience. JFI - The wet setting is pre set by RL and can't be altered, I have spent some time talking to RL about this. The wet setting is 0%. This means on corners the system will react to try to keep to 0%, that is why getting tire sizes and ABS pulse count correct is so critical. To achieve this the system will induce more and more cut then less and less to get back to 0%. RLTC can’t make the wheels not slip, it just tries to reduce engine power to bring back non slip conditions. When the car is straight (and nearly straight) 5% is added to all slip settings across the range. So you will get some slip in a straight line it you use a big foot. If anyone does not feel comfortable with their settings PM me and we can discuss options. You can have what you want; more or less feel, more slip, less slip, there are so many variables it would take ages to try and see what effect they all have, I have tried! but am happy with my settings in my car. To really get the best out of the system we needed Graham to develop the monitoring section of his excellent app so that recorded runs could be analysed. But unfortunately he never got to finish that part and analysing WOT live runs round sharp bends is a bit tricky. JFI - The wet setting is pre set by RL and can't be altered, I have spent some time talking to RL about this. It would have been fun to develop dats for the various drag strips as they all have such different surface conditions. Edited due to cut and paste error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far Posted September 1, 2003 Author Share Posted September 1, 2003 With the fuse removed you shouldn't have to switch the thing off - the trac light should just flash. Drives you mad until you take the bulb out . Dunno which fuse it is off the top of my head though - I'll have a look tomorrow. If they were both on you wouldn't get the engine cutting out - probably the RLTC would cut in first (on wet mode anyway), then if the slip got too high you'd get the stock one confusing things I will have to check but the installer said he had removed the trac fuse,the trac light never flashes though,I can drive off without having to switch the trac fuse off and the engine doesnt cut out which I presume means the trac fuse has been pulled - but why no flashing trac light ? (the trac light we are referring to is the orange "trac cont off" light right ? I plugged my laptop in and on Grahams app,selected the monitoring section - the revs and speed seem to mirror actual speed of the vehicle so am I write in thinking the installation side of things is ok ? Any feedback Simon/Term greatly appreciated,I am worried my RL unit may not be working as it should or stock TC has not been disabled correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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