Dragonball Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Cant seem to locate this one anywhere Anyone know what the effeciency in CFM is provided by the stock rad fan? Checking out the pacet ones and looking to compare / improve etc etc Cheers Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 AFAIK Paul, you will have a job to beat the efficiency of the stock fan. I am sure Chris Wilson will shed some light if he finds this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted August 20, 2003 Author Share Posted August 20, 2003 Originally posted by Terminator AFAIK Paul, you will have a job to beat the efficiency of the stock fan. I am sure Chris Wilson will shed some light if he finds this thread. I know Chris likes the viscous fan - but I am interested in a total change to go with the new rad The Pacets 2x12" HPC126 pull 3899 CFM The flexalite 210 2x12" pull 2500 CFM Just looking for a comparison Cheers Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Originally posted by Paul E I know Chris likes the viscous fan - but I am interested in a total change to go with the new rad The Pacets 2x12" HPC126 pull 3899 CFM The flexalite 210 2x12" pull 2500 CFM Just looking for a comparison Cheers Paul With or without the bag blocking the flow , the way you drive it makes no difference im still trying to get the stains off me seat you incontinent fool John:flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Would have thought either http://www.mkiv.com of supraforums would know the answer....let us know when you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted August 21, 2003 Author Share Posted August 21, 2003 Ok - have used the search button ad nauseum As I understand it there are the following options Allair flows quoted by manufacturers under 'ideal' conditions Stock fan and shroud +ves - Pulling more effecient than pushing Moves a lot of air (2500CFM mentioned for a mkiii fan) Good shroud - uses all of the rad surface Thermostatically controlled Good warm up time -'ves Uses 10 HP to run it Takes up excess space Ugly fecker ! Electric Fans +ves - Pulling more effecient than pushing A double 12" combo can move a lot of air (3800 CFM mentioned) Thermostatically controlled to come on at lower temps - faster warm-up Easier access to engine Prettier (!) -'ves Poor shrouding - therefore single 12" are not using radiator effeciently Some singles 12"move a poor amount of air 1500 cfm Uses more electrical power - can drain battery Poor thermostat control from between the fins (needs to be water temp related) Options Keep stock and insert a secondary push fan between rad and FMIC (4400 cfm total) Ditch stock in favour of 2 pacet elctrics jobbies (3900 CFM) Ditch stock in favour of 15" pacet behind and 12 " pacet in front (4100 CFM) Opinions please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 How about - why do you feel you need more airflow through the rad...? -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Ian Paul has flow problems ( no not his bag) with the Rad now he has a FMIC. Paul knows this but FWIW I would NEVER give up a viscous now. The HP gains from electric fans are only gains when the fans are not running. When they are they probably take more horse power than a viscous. If it were me I would add a Push fan in front of the AC rad and use the existing sensor in the bottom left hand corner of the rad, this will bring the electric fan on at 97c. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 There is no way at all any sensibly sized motor on an electric fan can move enough air to compare with the stock engine driven one. Toyota and all modern manufacturers go to IMMENSE trouble to duct and control rad and engine bay air flow, it is easy to bugger it up, very hard to improve it. You will be adding weight and restricting low speed air flow with electric fans, IMO forget all about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supraguy Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Dont meant to hijack this thread, but this discussion has me worried about some mods I have planned in the near future. One includes Hybrids and an 'R' spec FMIC. Will this intercooler block the intake to the radiator enough to worry about cooling problems? I dont want to spend a ton of cash in mods only to be forced into cooling problems, and therfore more $$$ spending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Originally posted by Supraguy Dont meant to hijack this thread, but this discussion has me worried about some mods I have planned in the near future. One includes Hybrids and an 'R' spec FMIC. Will this intercooler block the intake to the radiator enough to worry about cooling problems? I dont want to spend a ton of cash in mods only to be forced into cooling problems, and therfore more $$$ spending. I have yet to see any commercially available FMIC kits that are done correctly. The ducting from the stock bumper mouth is removed in fitting all of them, which means air just takes the easy route, which is not THROUGH the I/C and rad cores. On autos with the auto box cooler in the N/S apaerture this has to go to get the I/C piping through. The FMICs all seem to block rad air flow enough to cause overheating on track days where the stock set up is fine. Removing the air con condenser rad helps, but not everyone wants to lose the A/C... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supraguy Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Well, my Veilside nose cone looks to have good ducting to force air into the FMIC / Radiator. Leon @ JPS should be doing the work, so going from other's feedback about them I have some confidence it should be ok. I'd just rather hear it from someone with a big FMIC like the 'R' spec and their experiences. And no.. I dont want to lose my AC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Fitting an FMIC will show up any problems you have with your radiator. Best to replace you radiator and create ducting for both. Supraguy - if your nose cose duct is flush to the FMIC then yes it may well duct ok, but its not the size of the hole that matters. Its more to do with being air tight and angled in the right way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 FMICs tend to cause problems with airflow to the rad on track days where the car is really pushed. I drove a Supra at Rockingham with an s-type IC and on the fast banked left hander and then on to the straight the water temperature rose sharply, through the rest of the lap it was fine, it was only when flat out on the baking that the temp rose. I didnt want to push it too far as it wasnt my car but I would suggest the FMIC was blocking the rad enough to present a problem eventually. JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Chris whilst I agree, the fan pushing through the air con rad is a definite help. I have an R type intercooler and have never had a cooling problem on the move with the stock viscous fan. If parked up on a hot day though my temperatures will rocket ( easily 100+ c at idle). Once moving again they drop nicely. You should ask Leon to wire the small ac fan so that it comes on at 97c whether the AC is on or not. You may find that this is enough for you. There is a wiring mod for this on MKIV.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Further Hijack. Is the stock fan really "viscous"? When I took mine off, I was having a good look, and it has a spiral wrapped metal band that grips the shaft. It seemed to me that if it heated up it would expand and grip the shaft tightly, thus spinning the fan faster. Couldn't see any other mechanism that that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Originally posted by Rob Is the stock fan really "viscous"? Yes AFAIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Originally posted by Rob Further Hijack. Is the stock fan really "viscous"? When I took mine off, I was having a good look, and it has a spiral wrapped metal band that grips the shaft. It seemed to me that if it heated up it would expand and grip the shaft tightly, thus spinning the fan faster. Couldn't see any other mechanism that that. Yes it is, `onest `injun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted August 22, 2003 Author Share Posted August 22, 2003 OK decided that I am going to keep the stock viscous and have our rad design amended so that the stock shroud etc works with it I can always change at a later date to electrics However I am also going to put a 'pusher' fan between the rad and I/C with a water temp thermostat (not fin temp) that will come on at higher temps Also a refridgerator in the boot with a couple bottles champers with blue neons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Not trying to be funny or clever Dick, but you need to read up on air flow through intercoolers, a fan in front and one pulling too is not good, the electric one will play hell with on the move air flow, the rad should only need a fan at all at low speeds if it's correctly sized and ducted. A puller fan is far better as it doesn't mask frontal area as an electric one in front will do. Most additional in front ones are to add air flow in traffic for the A/C condenser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted August 22, 2003 Author Share Posted August 22, 2003 Well today I flushed the existing rad (burned my hand quite succesfully in the process I might add, village that I am...) and topped up with good coolant and.... Still gets very hot when on a higher speed run for over 10 mins OK around town though - so presume that the rad 'heat-sink' capabilities are gone So def up for the new rad:( We are going to modify the designs on these so that both the stock fan shroud and pacet electric shrouds will fit (to keep everyone happy!) Point taken Chris on the set-up any other inputs from anyone welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted September 11, 2003 Author Share Posted September 11, 2003 Just an update on this Fitted our new 'Miiami-rice' radiator to mine today and re-fitted the engine under tray Have amended the radiator design so that it works with the viscous fan and shroud OR With two 12" Pacet Fans (we are working with Pacet on this) Whichever you prefer! Fitting excellent - slightly wider than stock and has a lovely flat black top - ready for a nice bit of bling! Result! Temps are now 'normal' and the air conditionoiing works a treat Also about to fit our 13 and 19 row oil coolers to the oil and tranny oil respectively - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Just a thought, is it possible to have 2 SMICs, with the other one on the passenger side ? Dunno how much room there is down there, but I don't remember there being much there (apart from the coolant expansion tank maybe). I guess there must be a reason why nobody does this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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