SimonR Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 It seems the more the gornerment intervenes with things, the worse society becomes because of it.The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Happy New Year Paul! ...just coz you dont like a dick up ya bum dosn't mean we should outlaw it for others who might enjoy it! LOL, so well put mate! Happy New year to you too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 All this "a child needs both parents..." stuff, but no one bats an eyelid at single parent families, doesn't make sense to me, you can't have it both ways. A natural parent automatically inherits the right to care for a child, no vetting is conducted - they can be really bad and get away with it. Adoption of any sort requires very carefully selected parents (regardless of their sexual prefs) In many ways this means they are quite likely to be better parents - not worse ones!!! Think of a same sex couple as say two mums, why is this worse than a single mum? It maketh no sense, put homophobic stereotypes aside and think logically! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 I cant understand why people say they'd be bad parents. Coz the system just doesnt allow that to happen. I purely think it shouldnt happen because of the bullying the child will get. And this after all is meant to be for the child right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 In a generation where it is normal and legal, why would the bullying be worse than say for a single parent? Even if there was some bullying (you can be bullied for anything) can that actually be worse than not caring for the child properly? I doubt that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Even if there was some bullying (you can be bullied for anything) can that actually be worse than not caring for the child properly? I doubt that! A lot of kids kill themselves just because of bullying though. People will undoubtedly bully a kid purely because of their parents being homosexual, so why increase the risk of bullying? Some might get bullied because of their parents being single BUT this is probably much less likely as a lot of people don't consider this to be "strange" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 You dont get bullied for having single parents anymore due to amount of divorces in this country. And regarding can bullying be worse then not caring for a child. You need to read up on how many children are bullied as this is a already known big problem in schools which they are trying to solve, how many injure themselves, become miserable, Contemplate suicide,dont go to school coz of the bullies the amount that do would surprise you. Unfortunatly im talking from personal experience on this one! When i was bullied at school coz of a family thing last thing i wanted to do was go to school!! which then gets the kid into the slippery slope of no education, then becomes one of those people who lives on benefits because they have no education. (you remember them, all the people you moan about) When ur a kid and your bullied you feel you cant talk to anyone as it always makes it worse, coz u cant have a bodyguard 24/7 and it can feel like your in prison....you lose your life you feel you cant go anywhere And when you finally do something about it and go up against them to solve it, you get in trouble yourself! Moving on as im getting wound up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Peace Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 I cant understand why people say they'd be bad parents. Coz the system just doesnt allow that to happen. I purely think it shouldnt happen because of the bullying the child will get. And this after all is meant to be for the child right! Good Point...BUT...kids get bullied for all sorts of reasons (or excuses), bullys will find an excuse to bully regardless... Kids get bullied because they are white, black, asian, wear glasses, have a brace, dont like football, support Arsenal, intellectural, rich, poor, Dad drives a shit car, dad drives an expensive car..bullying will always happen...but yeah prob another excuse to be bullied..but again an excuse. But yeah I agree the Childs rights must come first and foremost...and this subject shouldn't be used as a political football by militant gay activists..it goes beyond all this...the childs rights are paramount here I agree..but I would still tick the 'Yes' box... Great debate...god this is such a grown up BBS...proud to be a member of it..I learn so much from everyone on here...guess i need to get out more though:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 ...guess i need to get out more though:D Yeah, guess so. Find yourself a nice fella:limp: and go adopt a sprog:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Yeah, guess so. Find yourself a nice fella:limp: and go adopt a sprog:D he cant he's married ............... to a car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Peace Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 he cant he's married ............... to a car Yes and as yet...marriage to cars are not recognised..but who knows one day my Car and I could be allowed to adopt a Yaris:limp: I went to a very very tough school as a kid and Im not embarresed to say that it was a School for Children with Behavioul problems and learning difficulties, we had to work on the weekends on the plantations we were beaten regularly it was before the Childrens act came in...some of the kids that went to this school left for a life of crime but others did really well, Executive Chefs, one lad ended up in a top job at Sachi and Sachi. It was a tough regime (a victorian one) and not only did you have to ward off attacks from the Teachers you had to ward of attacks from other lads and they were often more than just physical!!! Its not screwed me up...I am a much stronger person because of all this...Teachers/houseparents cant abuse kids anymore..but I appreciate that bullying still exists and possibly more than it ever did...(as the envioronment has in some respects become lawless in some schools) I understand It dosn't mean you are weak if you get bullied its very often the taller stronger people that get bullied, my mate Alex who is 6.8 used to get bullied a lot (he was 6'5 then) but people would have a pop at him for no other reason than he was very tall and strong...but he wasn't a violent person, another mate of mine Ben is always getting picked on because he is tough and others see it as a challenge to wack him..so when he goes out for a drink he normally ends up in a fight...and all he wants to do is have a drink! Also..I was v embarresed to invite mates to my house because of the way we lived and the fact that my family was really poor...I guess the same would happen if I had been adopted by gay parents..so I guess thats another factor too...but the worlds changing, opinions are changing too...and all this needs to be considered very carefully when passing a new law like this...I just hope all this has been thoroughly thought through...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 It's true to say that kids do kill themselves due to bullying (it's rare though), but bullying uses any excuse it can find and if kids want to bully someone they will find a reason, whatever that may be... Kids also kill themselves due to other reasons, like depression caused by a crap upbringing - perhaps by parents who don't want or care for the child and would have failed the adoption vetting, for example I think it's easy to project your uneasyness with the situation onto others and thus asume everyone else will have the same problem with it that you do and therefore bully because of it, but as it becomes more common it will just be normal for those actually involved (rather than us on the outside looking in). It's only not normal now because we are undergoing a process of change, but it will happen one day, I'd be sure of that. Bullying, yes that is a problem that needs to be worked on (regardless of the excuse used to bully) and it will still exist regardless of parential curcumstances! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Peace Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Yeah, guess so. Find yourself a nice fella:limp: and go adopt a sprog:D ah ok...so when we getting married then?...you can be the biatch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 It's true to say that kids do kill themselves due to bullying (it's rare though), but bullying uses any excuse it can find and if kids want to bully someone they will find a reason, whatever that may be... Kids also kill themselves due to other reasons, like depression caused by a crap upbringing - perhaps by parents who don't want or care for the child and would have failed the adoption vetting, for example Kids will find any reason to bully someone but this would give them huge ammunition to do so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 I've seen kids bully for no reason at all, other than a random dislike of someone, hardly like ammunition is required or needed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Peace Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 I've seen kids bully for no reason at all, other than a random dislike of someone, hardly like ammunition is required or needed! Very True....and the bullies shouldn't be allowed to win by depriving someone like my dear friend Lorraine who the last i heard was working as a prostitute mainly because she required the dedication and support of two very understanding parents that had enough commitment to take on a huge challenge, she was abused whilst in a childrens home and as a result of her tempers she was a huge challenge for any prospective adopted parents. All she ever needed was to be truly loved...but was dreprived of the opportunity..i doubt if she is still alive to be honest. Sometimes and in some circumstances gay parenting...would of worked fine in her situation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Sometimes and in some circumstances gay parenting...would of worked fine in her situation! But like someone said there's plenty of perfectly capable straight couples waiting too. Or should the gay couple still get them even though they're on an equal par otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Peace Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 But like someone said there's plenty of perfectly capable straight couples waiting too. Or should the gay couple still get them even though they're on an equal par otherwise? In her case I doubt it would of mattered..there wasn't anyone that was willing to take her on and when they did it didn't last, not saying a gay couple would of been more successful..but increasing her options would'nt have been a bad thing...it just may have worked for her. Some of us imagine an orphan or a displaced child to be like Oliver Twist...some of these kids i spent time in Care with were absolute nightmares and through no fault of their own...there are a few emotional similarities to be shared by the challenges of being Lesbian or gay and those of children like Lorraine...if you marry this together...there could actually be the odd scenario with carefully selected parents where a gay or lesbian couple could actually provide the exact support and understanding tailored to the right situation of the child.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 But like someone said there's plenty of perfectly capable straight couples waiting too. Or should the gay couple still get them even though they're on an equal par otherwise? yeah, and why can't they all be treated as equal, as potential candidates, no favouritism or special preferences are needed here. No one needs to be deprived, it's just making things equal for everyone. - Interesting story Green Peace, interesting angle too! Agreed, bullying should be tackled head on and we should not let bullies win or be used as an excuse when it suits us to do so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 yeah, and why can't they all be treated as equal, as potential candidates, no favouritism or special preferences are needed here. No one needs to be deprived, it's just making things equal for everyone. Yeah so assumin everything else is equal, who should get the child, the straight couple or the gay couple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 whoever is first inline, just like everything else in life... people get on lists for this sort of thing, it's not a free for all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Well yeah obviously it's not a free for all but it's not a ticket system either! So it wouldn't be better for the kid to go to the more "normal / average / natural family environment"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 on a case by case basis the _best_ parents would be chosen - that's all there is too it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Peace Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 - Interesting story Green Peace, interesting angle too! ! Thanks..well a lot of Gays feel rejection from their own parents when they come out in their teens, so if you marry this sort of emotion to that of a child thats been rejected by his or her own biological parents...there could be quite a few hecteres of common ground!!!! Right Im going out for a good hard drive..be interested to hear Ash and Martins take on all this and Jakes! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kennyf Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Not read all 11 pages but I've noticed the words "normal" getting used alot. Times are changing and so are the views of what is normal , peoples sexuality are no longer as big an issue as in years gone by. How can anyone say that same sex couples would not provide a stable and loving enviroment compared what they class to be a normal parental setup. With 1/3 of all married couples splitting and becoming single parent families and the constant introduction of new parental figures into there broken home surely a stable same sex parent setup would be better?? As for the children being the butt of peoples jokes for their parents well kids will always find something to belittle each other about , i.e wrong clothes , wrong skin, parents job etc etc ..... As long as the child is happy and well looked after that should be all that matters ..... My 2p worth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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