chilli Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 it is adoption! WTF? Kids don't choose to have to be adopted, have crap parents, single parents, be orphans... but all of those curcumstances still exist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tomato_Supe Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 You cannot compare adoption to this , totally different ball park ! It doesn't have to be adoption, it could be anything that was once frowned upon... what matters is that we have evolved and people have become more open minded... it's just a shame that some people are stuck in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Sorry did not mean for that to come out as we are all going to evolve into gay/lesbian couples. It may happen though, every body could become bisexual in the future. Who knows. Thats OK what I was trying to put across that my own belief is that adopting by same sex couples is wrong AND because of a now powerful lobby in the "pink" corner, the lifestyles of this particular minority are being heralded as "normal", again I think it isnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris aka fonz Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 it is adoption! WTF? Kids don't choose to have to be adopted, have crap parents, single parents, be orphans... but all of those curcumstances still exist! that was aimed at tomato Sup post , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 There were people just like Chris when adoption first came into effect - now it's perfectly normal in everyday life. What do you mean "just like Chris" bloke has an opinion that's all! I'm 36 and spent a lot of my summer holidays growing up either staying with my Gran or sometimes staying with my cousin and his partner (same sex), must admit never thought anything off it and to this day (20 odd years later) they are still together and still see them often and think nothing of it. I would consider myself very open minded about these things but like Chris it just doesn't sit right with me, maybe it's because I come from a "sheltered" upbringing or whatever slant the chris bashing fella wants to put on it but we are all entitled to our own opinions (god bless forums ). Maybe it's just because I never saw it coming, woke up one day and same sex couples were getting married, 2 days later and they can adopt. or maybe I'm just getting old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Tomato - Can yo usee the point of its too soon, It has just been legalised for marriages and not all people are happy with this. To chuck in Adoption as well could backfire. I thought for couples to adopt it was very strict rules anyway. Been together so long, preferably married stable relationship. Well if marriages have only come in for Gay couples, then not sure how they can adopt. (i may be wrong on this just trying to go from memory) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris aka fonz Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 I think we should all agree to disagree , i have my views and some of you may share them and some will not . I have opened a can of worms and think it be best if we put the lid on it ! Hmm next debate UK or J spec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Maybe it's just because I never saw it coming, woke up one day and same sex couples were getting married, 2 days later and they can adopt. or maybe I'm just getting old Never saw it coming? if you are ok with same sex marrages and adoption as two things that are acceptable it's hardly a leap of faith, remember it is us with the stigma, the issues and baggage, not the children who would grow up in it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Never saw it coming? if you are ok with same sex marrages and adoption as two things that are acceptable it's hardly a leap of faith, remember it is us with the stigma, the issues and baggage, not the children who would grow up in it... Sorry mate, disagree with the whole issues and baggage thing, I showed in my post that I have no issues with anything in the mix be it gay couples, adoption or whatever! It just does not feel "right", can't put it any plainer than that. I agree with where you are coming with your first part but just because I don't agree with the topic as a whole, well doesn't make me wrong Anyway TT suck..........N/A RULE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Society isnt ready to take it. Until us younger generation become parents and can teach our kids its ok to be gay, it too soon. Not all of us old codgers are homophobic. Some young guys I know are worse than my parents generation, I think that is because some are uncertain about their own sexuality, but that is a whole can of worms of it own. ( I know one guy who would never sit in a chair because he found out it was previously owned by a gay.) But I would have to agree that on the whole society is less homophobic now than it was 20 years ago. I am sure that many same sex couples will make a far better job of parenting than many mixed sex couples. As has already been very well said, some people should not be allowed to be parents because they are creating damaged human beings. But todays laws put family first not the child. I have seen children whole I believe should have been removed from their natural parents, grow up to be really evil twisted people. I honestly believe that if the same child had been put with a family that actually cared for the child, the out come would be completely different. I think there may be an assumption that just because the law says same sex couple can adopt they all be allowed too. Children that have parents selected for them after some fairly tough selection proceedures, I know I have seen it first hand, are better off than many who where unfortunate enough to be born to parents who no one would ever allow to adopt as they would classes as unsuitable parents. If any couple can demonstrate that they have the means, the emotional maturity, stability, aptitude, and love to bring up an adopted child, we should all thank them. We should not judge them on the basis of their sexual preferences. My mum did say some thing about discssions about politics and religion, but I was not listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 TT suck..........N/A RULE NA MANUALS RULE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 NA MANUALS RULE Now that's just being out of order, my car looks the same as your car, does having an auto box make it any less of a car...........I think not And joking aside, this is prob the most sensible thing said in this entire thread If any couple can demonstrate that they have the means, the emotional maturity, stability, aptitude, and love to bring up an adopted child, we should all thank them. We should not judge them on the basis of their sexual preferences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Not all of us old codgers are homophobic.... Well said! This (as per any adoption) is done to benifit the child! Sexuality of the parents has nothing to do with it. Ok put it another way. A child of a natural family that split and the mum or dad then has a same sex relationship, are you guys now saying that that child should be removed? I doubt it. Why, because you are considering what is best for the child. Ok, so is it so hard to accept that same sex parents can adopt a child and that would also be in the best interests of the child... PS. Manual TT's rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tomato_Supe Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Ok put it another way. A child of a natural family that split and the mum or dad then has a same sex relationship, are you guys now saying that that child should be removed? I doubt it. Why, because you are considering what is best for the child. Ok, so is it so hard to accept that same sex parents can adopt a child and that would also be in the best interests of the child... PS. Manual TT's rule :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 i would be interested in a womans view on this you know after they are the maternal ones as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tomato_Supe Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 I am a woman... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Ok put it another way. A child of a natural family that split and the mum or dad then has a same sex relationship, are you guys now saying that that child should be removed? I doubt it. Why, because you are considering what is best for the child. Ok, so is it so hard to accept that same sex parents can adopt a child and that would also be in the best interests of the child... Difference there is the Dad is the blood dad of the child. We are talking about a kid being put in with at first strangers and the mother would still be part fo the kids life. I,e he still has a mum and dad And im sure the parents would of done the best of explaining to the kid what daddy or mummy is doing. Rather then saying heres you new daddy and daddy, you wont have a mummy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymanuk Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Fair play Max. People have their own opinion and that is good. Personally I think its morally wrong to have kids and not really want them. If they can be cared for by others that are willing to with the CHILDS best interest then that can't be morally wrong. It's one of those things as Chris has put "We have to agree to disagree" Terminator: - Not all of us old codgers are homophobic. Some young guys I know are worse than my parents generation, I think that is because some are uncertain about their own sexuality, but that is a whole can of worms of it own. ( I know one guy who would never sit in a chair because he found out it was previously owned by a gay.) But I would have to agree that on the whole society is less homophobic now than it was 20 years ago. I am sure that many same sex couples will make a far better job of parenting than many mixed sex couples. As has already been very well said, some people should not be allowed to be parents because they are creating damaged human beings. But todays laws put family first not the child. I have seen children whole I believe should have been removed from their natural parents, grow up to be really evil twisted people. I honestly believe that if the same child had been put with a family that actually cared for the child, the out come would be completely different. I think there may be an assumption that just because the law says same sex couple can adopt they all be allowed too. Children that have parents selected for them after some fairly tough selection proceedures, I know I have seen it first hand, are better off than many who where unfortunate enough to be born to parents who no one would ever allow to adopt as they would classes as unsuitable parents. If any couple can demonstrate that they have the means, the emotional maturity, stability, aptitude, and love to bring up an adopted child, we should all thank them. We should not judge them on the basis of their sexual preferences. My mum did say some thing about discssions about politics and religion, but I was not listening. Totally agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 I am a woman... cheers i didnt know! Can i ask are you in a Gay relationship and wana adopt? sorry if that bit nosey! dont have to answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 that doesn't really cut it does it though: Difference there is the Dad is the blood dad of the child. We are talking about a kid being put in with at first strangers and the mother would still be part fo the kids life. I,e he still has a mum and dad And im sure the parents would of done the best of explaining to the kid what daddy or mummy is doing. Rather then saying heres you new daddy and daddy, you wont have a mummy. first part, so it is no different to adoption second part, say it happens when the child is 6 month old... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 I'm not homaphobic but I still beleive it's not normal and that's that. You can argue "what's normal", but the whole male & female thing is really quite elementary. We accept peoples differences and that's fine, but when you are bringing a child up, there's also a possible problem of nurture and that basically you'd be risking (?! ) having your children growing up gay. I suppose those gay children can't have more gay children too easily so at least the problem doesn't lend itself to simple propogation, however imagine a future society where every couple are gay and lesbian, and the lesbo daugters shag the other families gay sons as a service so that children can still be had and the human race can continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Edited as my first post did not show up for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 that doesn't really cut it does it though: first part, so it is no different to adoption second part, say it happens when the child is 6 month old... Adoption at moment or bit before should i say - It was adoption into a stable relationship of a couple of the opposite sex, in essence creating a loving typical family society will accept. Society is just about accepting Gay couples and thats not all of society. If some people saw a gay couple with a kid walking down road and kissing infront of the child they might be outraged (sad but true) If it happened 6 months into relationship then the parents would tell them at appropriate time. My 'thing' as such is not against them adopting coz they be rubbish parents. Im sure some would be good. Its for the kids sake, they would be bullied end of. Some kids can take it some cant, when the first kid commits suicide due to bullying becuase of same sex ADOPTING parents, it will be on news, papers everywhere. One day it will happen and it will be ok, its just too soon is what i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Personally I think its morally wrong to have kids and not really want them. If they can be cared for by others that are willing to with the CHILDS best interest then that can't be morally wrong. I think that hits the nail on the head, from the childs point of view our opinions on the parents sexuality is accademic. Our (societies) opinons on the parents ability (natural or otherwise) to do a decent job of raising that child, well now that is entirely relavent and is something society should make a judgement on, on a case by case basis! Natural parents does not not imply good parents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tomato_Supe Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 cheers i didnt know! Can i ask are you in a Gay relationship and wana adopt? sorry if that bit nosey! dont have to answer It's okay... it hadn't come up until now. No i'm not in a gay relationship, i'm in a very happy, 4 year long straight relationship. It's just that I had an opinion and I wanted to share. I do know a female gay couple though and they would make fantastic parents. I wasn't thinking of them at the time, but now that I do think about it, it makes me more determined to make my point that if they are willing to love a child and look after it - LET THEM!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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