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How Grand Prix used to be, not so long ago...


Chris Wilson

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Overtaking is going to be extremely difficult in ANY formulae where you place all the cars that are faster than you in front of you, and all the cars that are slower than you behind you. The cars in front will pull away, and the cars behind will fall behind. Obvious 'aint it.

No matter what you do to the cars, unless you place a faster car/driver combo behind a slower car/driver combo, with the exception of the combo having an off of some kind, you simply won't get overtaking.

You then have to remember that this is "grand prix" meaning big prize. There is no prize for not finishing a race, and as F1 is a technilogical showcase, which has meant building faster, albeit less robust cars. So the ability for drivers to run off/hit each other, and recover has been massively reduced. So the only way to receive the "grand prix" is to keep your car in one piece, which means not taking those kind of risks, which means not overtaking. Which wouldn't happen anyway, as thanks to qualification, the car in front is going faster than you anyway.

The new qualification system, and the new "centre downwash generating wing" (which incidentally does nothing of the sort) will do sweet F.A. to help overtaking.

Just my 2p. :)

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No matter what you do to the cars, unless you place a faster car/driver combo behind a slower car/driver combo, with the exception of the combo having an off of some kind, you simply won't get overtaking.

 

No.

 

Reason there's no overtaking is massive dependence of the car's on aerodynamics for grip.

 

If you put on big slicks and completely removed front and rear wings, no rear diffuser etc, you would get some great racing.

You need to make the cars more like giant very powerful karts.

 

Anyone who races competitive karts knows how much overtaking there is there, and also in Formula Ford, F.Vauxhall Jnr (now defunct i think) and similar formulas that are not dependent on aerodynamics.

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Overtaking is going to be extremely difficult in ANY formulae where you place all the cars that are faster than you in front of you, and all the cars that are slower than you behind you. The cars in front will pull away, and the cars behind will fall behind. Obvious 'aint it.

No matter what you do to the cars, unless you place a faster car/driver combo behind a slower car/driver combo, with the exception of the combo having an off of some kind, you simply won't get overtaking.

You then have to remember that this is "grand prix" meaning big prize. There is no prize for not finishing a race, and as F1 is a technilogical showcase, which has meant building faster, albeit less robust cars. So the ability for drivers to run off/hit each other, and recover has been massively reduced. So the only way to receive the "grand prix" is to keep your car in one piece, which means not taking those kind of risks, which means not overtaking. Which wouldn't happen anyway, as thanks to qualification, the car in front is going faster than you anyway.

The new qualification system, and the new "centre downwash generating wing" (which incidentally does nothing of the sort) will do sweet F.A. to help overtaking.

Just my 2p. :)

 

Now I understand what you are saying but can you explain why I found watching that old film the most exciting F1 I have ever seen and the F1 that I have seen on the box for the past few years some of the most boring stuff ever?

 

Sorry but if I want "technilogical showcase" I'll plug my computer in and play Doom :blahblah: need my bed!

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Hmmm are you really trying to tell me that if you have a faster driver and car in front of a slower driver and car, then the slower driver will "somehow" overtake the faster car? The only time this will ever happen is if the faster driver makes an error.

The issue is more to do with the fact that modern F1 has tailored itself to the qualifying format. If the starting grid was reversed, then you'd get overtaking. Simple.

If you take all the aerodynamics away, but kept the qualifying the same, you would still get a line of cars launching away from the start with the fastest pulling away from the slowest, and all the other cars in between in order of their speed.

Look at that vid again, both cars sport probably more downforce than any modern F1 car. Yet how many overtaking maneouvres are there on the last lap?

Both drivers took risks, which paid off for Villeneuve, but he probably would have settled for third if he'd known that chances were if he touched Arnout he would have been out of the race completely. Same thing for tin tops, and GT. The cars are more robust and the drivers are more willing to take risks.

 

No.

 

Reason there's no overtaking is massive dependence of the car's on aerodynamics for grip.

 

If you put on big slicks and completely removed front and rear wings, no rear diffuser etc, you would get some great racing.

You need to make the cars more like giant very powerful karts.

 

Anyone who races competitive karts knows how much overtaking there is there, and also in Formula Ford, F.Vauxhall Jnr (now defunct i think) and similar formulas that are not dependent on aerodynamics.

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Now I understand what you are saying but can you explain why I found watching that old film the most exciting F1 I have ever seen and the F1 that I have seen on the box for the past few years some of the most boring stuff ever?

 

Sorry but if I want "technilogical showcase" I'll plug my computer in and play Doom :blahblah: need my bed!

 

LOL if you don't want new technologies to be involved in your racing then there's always formula boss. Prime example in fact, that new load of old shite that Nigel Mansell is in. Jeeessus christ that was boring. But that had limited aero, good old grippy tyres, similar hp engines and no driver aids. :yawn:

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Do you REALLY think so? Hasn't Rossi just pissed all over everyone else yet again? :shrug:

 

Rossi does not have a dominating bike. It is down to pure driver skill with his machine. His bike has been outclassed in top speed and power by the Honda's and is clearly visable over the last 2 seasons on his yamaha. On the straights the Honda's are much quicker and also around the corners but he is a master on the brakes as well as getting good drive out of the corners.

 

Its not like the time trial events of F1 in previous years when Schumacker was in pole position and finished first or had a good pit strategy to allow him to get infront of other competitors. Also having a more powerful car. It was interesting when Mclaren had a car that could keep up with the ferrari's and also with Mika driving against Schumacher. I am not saying overtaking does not happen in F1. There is nothing wrong with F1 at all just no way near as exciting as MotoGP IMHO.

Lets face it Schuamcher would still be winning if they had not changed so many rules and regs.

 

Those guys are always overtaking on corners which you don't see in F1 very much unless they are lapping someone. It does happen but rare.

The problem is probably due to the width of the cars compared to the width of the road. Not much room for high speed overtaking as F1 cars are wide and have less room on the track, have one fast line through a corner whereas on a the MotoGP the bikes are smaller, therefore more track and more fast racing lines through corners.

 

I still admire F1, the technology in and out of the cars, the people who work for the teams and of course the ladies.... :eyebrows:

I feal the same for MotoGP but the races that you see in MotoGP are far more exciting purely because there are more battles for position constantly in GP than there is in F1. In F1 I find the positional battles are in the start, first corner and then pit strategy. MotoGP has positional battles every corner and straight.

 

Sorry for the long post :)

 

Ray

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