Legend Best 'enters final hours'

[KaoriFan]

I'm with Kopite on this I'm afraid.

 

I don't think anyone can really disagree that he brought this on himself.

1) true, very much so

 

Or that he was stupid to waste a second chance given to him following someone elses death from which he received a new liver.

 

2) understatement, imo. its not so much his wasting a 2nd chance, even though personally, i think most thought he would - but hoped otherwise. what gets to me, that he actually had a liver transplant. some families, mother, father, son or daughter gave him that chance to live again, maybe they are feeling like their family member is dying for a second time. we should think more about how they feel at this time, as they could have given someone else life who would care a damn.

 

But George Best himself would be the FIRST to admit how stupid he has been. He is an alcoholic, an addict. Logic doesn't come into play for an addict.

 

3) maybe he would admit it. but where were all the friends to help him with his addiction, all these sporting heroes, didnt care a damn. most people with an addiction if they really want to can overcome it, with own determination and help from friends.

 

When he was admitted to hospital at the start of October her he was almost dragged there by his friend and agent. He was so ashamed and scared of what the media would say that he put off seeking treatment. How much of the rest of his life has he spent being scared or stressed about what people would think because his every move was always in the papers? I wouldn't want to be famous.

 

4) i agree, being famous and in the papers at your every move, would affect nearly everyone. but its how you live your life. their are people who deal with 'celebrity' well, others dont. He made his choice, says a lot that he was married a number of times and even in prison, both can happen to anyone. where was his son or other family soon as they could see what was going on, they have to take blame. seems that he liked the cameras and fame when it was going his way, but not when it went against.

 

I'm not trying to excuse anything he has done. He has made many mistakes and is now paying the price. But you can't blame HIM for being the top story in the news tonight. The press has put him there, blame them. Media attention was the last thing he wanted when he went into hospital.

 

5) and more so, that if he had not got affected by alcoholism, think how much good he could have done. then again he could have been a spokesperson, against alcoholism, after his transplant.

i do agree about the press and how they are covering this, its wrong, then again, there is more important stuff going on in the world that needs headlines.

Tony Adams had problems with alcoholism, he overcame it, and he was about best defender we had in country at the time. and he actually took positives and helps others now with the same problems. so it proves it can be done

 

Branners, you asked "so he could kick a football, how does that help anybody?"

 

Best was a young lad from East Belfast who hit the big time at 17 years of age and gave the people of Northern Ireland something to be proud of during some of the darkest days of the troubles. He gave hope and crossed the divide between the communities in N. Ireland. There wasn't much for anyone to be proud of over there in those times. Every kid wanted to be Best. He gave so many of them hope that even coming out of somewhere like Belfast, they could still make it in life. Symbolic I know, but he probably did more good in those times than he was even aware of himself.

 

6), i agree, he was able to bridge the cross community divide back in those dark days, but there were others we never hear about. After his playing days were over, he was ideal person, to keep that going on. maybe there would have been a few less people around wanting to kill, and play football instead.

he would have been ideal person, and hypothetically, if this happened, maybe it would have turned him away from alcohol, if he saw his life had purpose and was helping others, less fortunate.

big problem in my eyes, its the Charlton's and other older players from Man U, and his national team that bear a lot of responsibility for how things turned out in his life. once they saw what was happening they could have intervened.

Branner's is correct as we seem to put sports personalities on pedestal's, like they are above everything. how many footballers (or other sports stars) are there that actually do good things. i know a few have charities and do good. but so many moan about things. 2 examples, Roy Keane at 90,000 a week, if he donated one weeks wages he could probably pay for employing 2 paramedics for a year. Rio Ferdinand, really worth 120,000 for kicking an inflatable object, its crazy.

 

He didn't ask for fame, he just wanted to be the best footballer that he could be. He became an alcoholic, like so many other people of his time. Let him die in peace. If you don't agree with what he has done with his life, then fine. But you don't have to say things like "why doesnt he hurry up and die". That's just being vindictive.

 

7) becoming an alcoholic is not indicative of just those times, it goes on all the time these days and will into the future. its what you learn when given a second chance. dont forget all the TV shows he appeared on when after his transplant. i think most hoped he turned the corner, but did we really believe he would.

it is the Michael Parkinson's that are part of the prob, how they suck up to 'celebrities'. they didnt need to fight to get Best on TV, they could have let him be, and maybe none of this would have happened, if not for the bright lights again of fame.

 

I am not slagging off George Best specifically, but anyone in the same situation, or not. it doesnt matter to me.

 

 

 

btw, this is a general reply about whats going on, not specific to this post, but it raises interesting points so i responded.

my views are numbered in the above post.

 

sorry if what i have written annoys, but really we should be able to discuss and disagree, without it turning personal.

i suppose i will get flamed for this reply, but constructive replies prove a lot more. imho

[KaoriFan]

Not very nice?

 

Just read the whole thread since my lame ass comments... and things did get a bit heated?!

 

I particularly enjoyed the Pink Floyd tangent and then the 'can I get to 100 posts' bit in the middle....

 

KaoriFan I think it's safe to say

 

Pink Floyd still rock ,and i need to lighten the mood again, methinks. on the way to 200 posts anyone, lol

[Branners]

 

Branners, you asked "so he could kick a football, how does that help anybody?"

 

Best was a young lad from East Belfast who hit the big time at 17 years of age and gave the people of Northern Ireland something to be proud of during some of the darkest days of the troubles. He gave hope and crossed the divide between the communities in N. Ireland. There wasn't much for anyone to be proud of over there in those times. Every kid wanted to be Best. He gave so many of them hope that even coming out of somewhere like Belfast, they could still make it in life. Symbolic I know, but he probably did more good in those times than he was even aware of himself.

 

He didn't ask for fame, he just wanted to be the best footballer that he could be. He became an alcoholic, like so many other people of his time. Let him die in peace. If you don't agree with what he has done with his life, then fine. But you don't have to say things like "why doesnt he hurry up and die". That's just being vindictive.

 

you see thats on the basis that everybody actually liked football and looked up to him. If he had actually done something for the peace in Northern Ireland then that would be impressive as that would have affected everybody. If he appealed across the devide then surely he should have put that to some use in later life. Sure he gave some kids hope to move on but nothing had really changed in Northern Ireland due to him being alive.

 

He lived a fast life and Im sure he enjoyed every minute of it, Im sure those around him havent enjoyed it quite so much, but then thats the problem with society today, nobody will take responsibility for their own actions. They can enjoy themselves all they want and damn the consequences. When somebody is that high profile they have a responsibility to be a good role model, they might not like that or even want it but thats how society works now.

 

JB

[Soonto_HAS_soop]

I wonder how many people replying to this thread calling George Best a dickhead, or the like, is actually a smoker? That's an addiction that costs the country millions a year due to people killing themselves slowly, but they then complain when something like this happens to an addict of another type of drug.

[DamanC]

Wow what have i caused .......cool

 

i havent added my thoughts here, but here goes

 

Personally i will regard him as a legend simply for what he has done for the football world. I am a footie fan however others that arnt football followers may simply see him as a pisshead and nothing more.

 

Tax from ciggerettes generates far more revenue to cover people that die/costs inccured by smoking

[Alex]

I think what most of us want is to not have it plastered all over the media...the whole sorry saga should be left alone...let him die in peace.

 

Instead we have to sit through news report after news report about him and how it's such a shame. Then again when Diana died and the BBC etc we're non-stop reporting on that it wasn't worth switching on the TV or picking up a newspaper as apparrently the world stopped and there was no other news. (Sorry that will probably upset loads of you but I could give two hoots about her either)

 

I just get fed up of "celebrities'" etc "news" getting in the way of anything remotely interesting.

[CJ]

Personally i will regard him as a legend simply for what he has done for the football world. I am a footie fan however others that arnt football followers may simply see him as a pisshead and nothing more.

As per my earlier comment (and nothing to do with his condition or relative merits of transplant etc) what do you think he did for the football world? As an old fart, I can vaguely remember him playing and then only in a couple of games.

[Soop Dogg]

you see thats on the basis that everybody actually liked football and looked up to him. If he had actually done something for the peace in Northern Ireland then that would be impressive as that would have affected everybody. If he appealed across the devide then surely he should have put that to some use in later life. Sure he gave some kids hope to move on but nothing had really changed in Northern Ireland due to him being alive.

 

He lived a fast life and Im sure he enjoyed every minute of it, Im sure those around him havent enjoyed it quite so much, but then thats the problem with society today, nobody will take responsibility for their own actions. They can enjoy themselves all they want and damn the consequences. When somebody is that high profile they have a responsibility to be a good role model, they might not like that or even want it but thats how society works now.

 

JB

 

 

Worng again JB.

 

You asked "How does that help anybody?"

 

I told you how he helped. He got kids from both sides of the community

to interact at a time when the 'Peace Lines' were being put up around

Belfast to separate opposing communities. This is how he helped. In the

30 years since then, the government and charitable groups have spent

millions on getting kids together in cross-community projects with varying

degrees of success.Having answered your question, you now apparently want him to have solved the entire problems of Northern Ireland. Sorry, but

whatever he did, it seems you will simply demand that he did more. He did

what he did and some of it helped (maybe even only in a small way)people in

an environment that I hope you never have to experience.

 

And it WASN'T just people who liked football as you suggest whose spirits

he lifted in those times. Most people in N. Ireland were drawn to him

then whether they were football fanatics or had never watched a game in

their lives. Best 'belonged' to the people of Belfast back then. He was

someone they identified with as being 'theirs'. Alex Higgins was treated

the same, as was (to a similar degree but courted a little more controversy),

Barry McGuigan. Unfortunately Alex Higgins went the same way as George

Best with the bottle and is a bit of a wreck these days too.

 

All I was wanting to say is that George wasn't ALL bad. I can't count the

times I referred to him as a waster and an idiot. But when you met him or

saw him on interviews, you really couldn't help but like the man. He had a

way about him that kind of made you forgive his idiocy with the drink.

 

Now when the chips are down and it looks like he's about to die, he's as

human as the rest of us. To say that he should "hurry up and die" is wrong

to say about someone just because they lived their life in this way. I've

agreed with the principles of most of what everyone here is saying against

him. But to say this about him in this way is cruel. Not only don't you

afford the man himself any dignity, you afford yourself no dignity either.

 

My thoughts are simply that George brought all this on himself.

He had some wonderful opportunities that he wasted, but at the same time he

inspired alot of people who desperately need someone or something to be proud

of. He COULD have made so much more of himself after his football career

ended but failed to do so. People perhaps even gave him too many chances

and he failed them too. But to see such a talent as this turning into what

he is today really is a shame and I hope that others can maybe learn form

him. I feel more pity for him than resentment. He'll be missed by many

people - and before you say it - I know many won't give a damn when he goes,

but at least have some dignity about someone who is about to die.

[KaoriFan]

Wow what have i caused .......cool

 

i havent added my thoughts here, but here goes

 

Personally i will regard him as a legend simply for what he has done for the football world. I am a footie fan however others that arnt football followers may simply see him as a pisshead and nothing more.

 

Tax from ciggerettes generates far more revenue to cover people that die/costs inccured by smoking

 

 

a bit of a shame for the innocent who are out enjoying a meal and get affected by passive smoking and die from lung cancer, all because of inconsiderate smokers, who have to light up at every opportunity. but maybe thats not really important, if they get the taxes.

 

to me, there is no difference between smoking and drinking. well, one major one, drunk drivers can kill, nice and speedy. but other than that there is no real difference.

seeing as if you stab someone, you can get life. by car, nothing as severe a sentence.

[Soonto_HAS_soop]

a bit of a shame for the innocent who are out enjoying a meal and get affected by passive smoking and die from lung cancer, all because of inconsiderate smokers, who have to light up at every opportunity. but maybe thats not really important, if they get the taxes.

 

to me, there is no difference between smoking and drinking. well, one major one, drunk drivers can kill, nice and speedy. but other than that there is no real difference.

seeing as if you stab someone, you can get life. by car, nothing as severe a sentence.

 

There is a difference between drinking and smoking, not everyone that drinks wakes up every morning and must have a pint before they can even think about starting the day.....

[DamanC]

As per my earlier comment (and nothing to do with his condition or relative merits of transplant etc) what do you think he did for the football world? As an old fart, I can vaguely remember him playing and then only in a couple of games.

 

1946: Born May 22 in Belfast

1963: Makes debut for Man Utd

1964: Northern Ireland debut

1965: United win the league championship

1968: Voted English and European footballer of the year

1970: Sent off for Northern Ireland for throwing mud at ref

1972: Quits United aged 26

 

If you watch the games he played, you can see he would hold a place down in any premiership team today. was a very very good played, inspired millions to want to play how he could

[SkyJawa]

Wow, argument central!

 

I wonder how many other people who pretty much drank themselves to death and caused cirrocis of the liver were actually even allowed on a transplant list? I would imagine the selection criteria near as dammit rules out anyone with that reason. So how did he get on the list and get one then, and if he'd been joe public would he have done.............

 

And BTW - non-smoker

[KaoriFan]

this is like Groundhog Day, we will all sleep tonight, then wake in the morning. and it will still be going on and on, like 24 hours didnt exist, lol

[CJ]

1946: Born May 22 in Belfast

1963: Makes debut for Man Utd

1964: Northern Ireland debut

1965: United win the league championship

1968: Voted English and European footballer of the year

1970: Sent off for Northern Ireland for throwing mud at ref

1972: Quits United aged 26

 

If you watch the games he played, you can see he would hold a place down in any premiership team today. was a very very good played, inspired millions to want to play how he could

I am sorry mate but that is a very simple biography that anyone could copy and paste off the internet. Could I ask how old you are? My guess is you never actually saw him play and have only ever seen TV footage of a couple of matches. That listing above could be almost anyone and doesnt tell anything like the full story.

 

To my mind the man was a superb footballer but he brought something to the game (and ultimately left a legacy) that overshadowed even his great skill. He brought petulance, disloyalty, selfishness and all the other bad things that people now associate with today's game. Look back at the number of times he didnt trun up for training, matches etc. Look at the times he went "missing". If you want to cite what he did for football at least get the facts right.

[Branners]

Symbolic I know, but he probably did more good in those times than he was even aware of himself.

 

So you said above that he wasnt even aware of the good he was doing...so its safe to say he didnt actually try to do any good and its only because he was famous and dragged himself out of the gutter that people wanted to be like him? Its therefore safe to say he didnt actually 'do' anything for peace in Northern Ireland except be famous? When he is dead nobody will stop and think 'wow, look what he did with his life'. When somebody like Geldof croaks then he will be remembered for the greater good but Best tossed his whole life away by doing nothing more than kicking a football around a field, he may have been admired but were there any situations where he went back to Belfast and tried to sort out the problems or use his influence to sort things out?

 

By the way both my parents are Irish and I still have relatives in the North and in the south so I know how catholic and protestant people get on and the history behind it all.

 

Not going to say any more on this now, I think he threw his life away and helped nobody but himself, others have a different view and thats their choice.

 

JB

[KaoriFan]

I think what most of us want is to not have it plastered all over the media...the whole sorry saga should be left alone...let him die in peace.

 

Instead we have to sit through news report after news report about him and how it's such a shame. Then again when Diana died and the BBC etc we're non-stop reporting on that it wasn't worth switching on the TV or picking up a newspaper as apparrently the world stopped and there was no other news. (Sorry that will probably upset loads of you but I could give two hoots about her either)

 

I just get fed up of "celebrities'" etc "news" getting in the way of anything remotely interesting.

 

 

i agree it was overkill about Diana, and all the coverage that was on TV.

will never forget some woman on TV in the crowd, saying 'Diana, we love you', but how many actually met her, and knew the real person. but difference is she actually did some good things.

still, i can't get on with this whole 'celebrity' thing

[KaoriFan]

the thing that annoys me in this whole situation, and i have said it previously.

 

who is actually giving a thought for the family of the donated liver at this time. its not much of a legacy to have it go to someone who didnt care.

 

most seem concerned over his 'celeb' status, and his football skills.

 

anyone here, should put themself in the place of the family of the donated organ. and how would they feel knowing that something so precious that could have gone to someone who looked after their life, but it didnt and was wasted.

thats the point imo, and shouldnt be missed. and it is more imporant than whats going on.

 

maybe even think if someone in your family needed transplant, and later on you found they died as they were pushed down the queue so he could get placement.

 

anyways, we are always gonna have two differing views on this and that wont change

 

i need some Pink Floyd

[KaoriFan]

finally, hopefully. god knows what will happen when someone like mike Tyson dies. think how many think he is a living legend. but then consider how he has conducted his life.

 

i would imagine everyone going on about how a great boxer he was, but forget about his rape charges and convictions and fact he should be in prison for life for his actions.

 

not trying to start another discussion, but i feel same thing, 'celebrity' status and how people react to it

 

same as David Beckham going over 70mph in a 30mph residential area, as he thought his wife was gonna be kidnapped or the like. what if he killed someone you knew through his actions. but he gets away with it

[KaoriFan]

time to go for lunch, need a breather.

 

now we need time to chat about Supra's. nearly forgot why we are all here, lol

[SkyJawa]

time to go for lunch, need a breather.

 

now we need time to chat about Supra's. nearly forgot why we are all here, lol

 

I should think so, SG will be after you for nicking her post whore title if you dont

[Soop Dogg]

So you said above that he wasnt even aware of the good he was doing...so its safe to say he didnt actually try to do any good and its only because he was famous and dragged himself out of the gutter that people wanted to be like him? Its therefore safe to say he didnt actually 'do' anything for peace in Northern Ireland except be famous?

 

No, read what I said:

 

he probably did more good in those times than he was even aware of

 

That does not mean that he didn't try to do any good. What language would you like me to spell it out in?

 

He participated in the running of local kids football matches in my town in the mid 70's. (Kids from both sides of the 'divide') What more inspriation can kids have than for their hero to turn up at their footy match? Maybe he could've done more, but that's not an accusation you can level at George Best alone. Many, many people are guilty of this.

 

he may have been admired but were there any situations where he went back to Belfast and tried to sort out the problems or use his influence to sort things out?

 

May I refer you to my previous answer. He at least tried to make a contribution.

 

By the way both my parents are Irish and I still have relatives in the North and in the south so I know how catholic and protestant people get on and the history behind it all.

 

I lived there until I left home to go to work in England. I am the only member of my family living outside Northern Ireland. But even I wouldn't DARE to come out with that! Big frickin' deal - you have a few relatives on each side of the border and you think you can understand the history of conflict in Ireland? I dare you to announce that to the people on here who still live in Northern Ireland and see the sort of reception you get!

 

Perhaps you should take this opportunity to explain to me just how "catholic and protestant people get on and the history behind it all"?

 

No?

 

Thought not.

 

Not going to say any more on this now, I think he threw his life away

 

Isn't this what I've said too???? Let me reiterate, then:

 

I can't count the times I referred to him as a waster and

an idiot

 

He had some wonderful opportunities that he wasted

 

He COULD have made so much more of himself after his football career ended but failed to do so

 

People perhaps even gave him too many chances

and he failed them

 

I was simply saying that some of the comments being made here were undignified and that the man did SOME good things in his life too and SOME people will always have at least SOME respect for him. You can't change the past, JB.

 

 

helped nobody but himself, others have a different view and thats their choice.

 

This seems to me to be the only point on which we really disagree with regards to George Best. But then I was there, and I know what I know. You cannot tell me different. To try to do so only serves to highlight that you simply do not want to believe a different viewpoint and to show yourself as blinkered.

 

You weren't there, but shockingly, you know best. (pun intended)

[Jake]

He's died

[monkey3]

This is not really a rant, I'm just really disappointed that the world is going the way it is.

 

And if anyone has written a similar post to what I'm about to say, I'm sorry, I didn't read it.

 

I can't actually be bothered to read through the whole thread as I think I pretty much got the gist from the first few replies.

 

I guess none of you really liked him then?

 

So he deserve to die did he?

because he got a liver transplant and didn't deserve it?

So if one of your parents or someone you love dies because they have an alcohol addiction you'll be happy right?

or at least not that pissed off?

because they deserved to die really?

So you're gonna ask me how pissed I would be if I or someone I loved was waiting for the bed he got or the liver he got, right?

Well frankly, if I could sell everything I owned to buy that liver ahead of the next person to save my well loved alcoholic dad I would. Wouldn't you?

 

Don't be upset by all means, as he really means nothing to you, but what sort of a world do we live in where people are glad that you die?

Next thing is going to be that some person deserves to die because he hasn't done enough to help the poor and the needy.

 

I'm not going to argue with anyone about this as we are all entitled to our own opinion and besides I can't be bothered.

[monkey3]

He's died

 

[Ian C]

I wonder if he has a doner card?

 

-Ian