Thorin Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Just stumbled upon this on the i-supra board, quite interesting read for those looking at single turbo upgrade but don't know a lot about them. http://www.i-supra.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=154607117&f=9126041111&m=2396092921 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Cheers for all the info guys, Terry cheers for your help, I think were going to go for Boost logics kit with a 67GTOQ trim jobbie. Anyone got any info on the HKS TO4Z? Roll on the info fellas.... Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 The 67mm is too big for your mods Ali. Stick with a 63mm. If not don't say I didn't warn you. PHR kits are very expensive, & the only advantage if it is one is that they are roller bearing turbo's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Sorry Terry, its just that I saw his 67 hit full boost at around 4000 rpm on his site?? Ok, thats it, hope to go for a 63mm wheel, Terry when I get in contact with him, Ill drop your name in, see what a good person I am..... .....hope the use of your name serves a discount.... Many thanks Terry! Will let you know when/if we get the ball rolling...maybe tm. maybe next month.....who knows... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I have nothing really to input to this thread directly, but i'm adding a copy of an email that came through on the US list a few months back. It was written by a guy who has had a lot of experience with racing his Supra on street like circuits and has tried a few different turbos over the years. Makes interesting reading. Some of the things I've learned w/ trying different types of turbos: 1) BB, and divided housing, are each supposed to significantly improve spool.... yet for some reason..... they barely do that, if at all..... from my own testing on different cars w/ the same setup, same or similar turbo (bb vs. non-bb), the non-bb turbo spooled exactly the same as the bb turbo. That is, the wastegate opened at 18psi in 3rd at the same RPM on both cars...... Divided turbine housings, like the ones turbonetics uses, seem to improve spool slightly at very low boost levels, i.e. making the car more lively / responsive in normal driving. Precision doesn't tend to use divided housings, so I don't have one..... I don't miss it all that much..... 2) Lots of people like the p-trim exhaust wheel for some reason. It's mainstream, everybody gets it..... at least that's why I got it on my 1st single turbo...... It's a good wheel and support good power... but in my experience, the q-trim wheel has a better "power to spool" ratio than the p.... (the nomenclature is simple, later letter in the alphabet = bigger turbine wheel). I originally just wanted a q-trim wheel.... the "gtq" thing is explained later in this post..... but anyways, if you want to make BIG power (660+) through a p-trim wheel, you need to upgrade to a .81+AR exhaust housing, which hurts spool by ~500RPMs..... or you could do what I did, upgrade to a q-trim exhaust wheel and keep the small .68ar.... and only lose ~200rpms of spool, yet have the ability to make about the same power as the p-.81 combo...... 3) compressor wheels..... ah, there are so many choices. For ~600-620rwhp, there is no doubt that the original T61 wheel is by far the best choice, bar none. It's just got the widest compressor map of ANY turbo in the rainge, period.... I originally wanted more than that, so I got a T64.... made good power but surged a little bit..... the engine wasn't in the compressor map's acceptable areas at all operating conditions. The T66 is a better turbo than the T64 IMHO because it'll spool about the same, make about the same power, but it will surge significantly less than the T64 (better compressor map). Now... you did ask about my new turbo so I'll give you the entire scoop on all this CTC-67H talk. Well..... I figured out that the HKS To4R has a REALLY, REALLY good compressor wheel.. it happens to be 67mm in diameter, but is a newer generation Garrett design, called the "GT series." As the new generation turbos are more efficient, they make more power.... To4R's have made 700-720+rwhp, out of a 67mm turbo, all boost... show me a T66 that does that (not possible). So why not just buy a T04R? simple, HKS uses the weenie P-trim exhaust wheel on the To4R, and compensates by wrapping it in a laggy-as-hell 0.96AR exhaust housing. ...so what I did was I took a brand new To4R from HKS, and shipped it to Harry at Precision Turbo, and said "can you get this compressor wheel, and mate it to a q-trim wheel on the other side, so I can use a good-spooling .68ar?" Months later, Harry got his hands on the To4r compressor wheels from Garrett, and the CTC-67H turbo was born. Recall that my car made 682rwhp on this turbo through a cast manifold, and I fully expect to make 700+rwhp now that I have a header on the car... Vivek made 720rwhp on the p-trim version of the turbo w/ the bigger exhaust housnig (.81 or .84, can't remember which)... I just prefer the q.68 to the p.81 because the q.68 spools better...... Now you're asking yourself, ok the compressor side is a new-generation GT series.... what about the exhaust side? well, right as I was waiting for Harry to build my new turbo, he also got his hands on new GT-series turbine wheels.... I suspect from the Garrett GT42 (unconfirmed).. so he machined these new style turbine wheels down to fit in a Q-trim exhaust housing, so it's the same radial size as a Q, but a newer more efficient design, and about twice as tall....... see this pic.. it shows , from left to right, a P, a Q, and my GTQ: http://www.boostaholic.com/tmp/turbotrims.jpg ---------- Moral of this story, IMHO what I've learned: 1) If you want the most flexible, streetable turbo possible, and only want to make ~620-630rwhp at high boost, get a classic T61 turbo with a p-trim .70ar mated to it. 2) If you want to make high 600's to low 700's at the wheels, get a turbo with the t04r/67mm wheel, mated to a gtq-trim exhaust wheel and a .68ar. Lots of vendors now sell my turbo (i say "my" because it was my idea / time and effort to get it made).... Hopefully you will buy it from CTCMotorsports, as they helped me get this turbo developed through Precision, and they are my primary sponsor for One Lap and their owner, Wayne Potts, is my co-driver this year... (shameless plug.. see http://www.ctcmotorsports.com ). 2b) Another option for making the same big power is to go the same route as Vivek -- the 67 turbo with a standard p-trim wheel and a .81ar. This turbo is significantly less expensive than the 67H because of the p-trim wheel, and will make similar power as the 67H if you get the .81 exhaust housing.. you just sacrifice some spool (i.e. ~4400rpm full boost in 3rd instead of 4000). 3) If you want to make 750+ at the wheels, get an SP74. From what I've seen, nothing matches that turbo's combination of HUGE power and decent spool. I say SP74 because, to be fair, Larry at SP developed and tested that turbo and I want him to get the credit for it.... I'd recommend buying the SP74 from Larry for the same reason I'd recommend buying the CTC-67H from CTC Motorsports. Hope this helps.......... Regards, Andi '98T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Martin I know Andi well. He has many mods that Ali doesn't. The 63mm is good, doesn't surge. I am not sure they do a Q trim for the 63 but if so then maybe a 0.58 AR Q trim would suit Ali. You must also understand that Andi came up with the 67 so is bound to love it. Top guy though. BTW all the power are on 116 Mon fuel, 30 psi ish boost. That is not gonna happen over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Originally posted by Terry S BTW all the power are on 116 Mon fuel, 30 psi ish boost. That is not gonna happen over here. What you mean i can't run 30psi boost on my Tesco's fuel ? I thought i'd just turn the dizzi round a bit and retard the timing even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sarcastic Post Above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra dan Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 does anyone know if the GReddy T 78 kits they sell at suprastore are any good? they seem to be good value even over here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Thanks Martin, that little piece was kinda infromative and does give a different but interesting view. It does seem that quite a few people claim that buy playing the game by the numbers, so to speak does not make much difference in the real world. Seems that, you just have to try it to feel it...Terry so you feel a T63 will be best, looks like Ill have to phone around and make some inquiries.... Terry, does he normally have these in stock??I know will email him..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Martin's top Capri tuning tips:innocent: Ali, normally about a 3 to 4 week turn around. Beware those who tell you different, they lie. Kean is very honest. Dan the T78 is getting on a bit & I think it is a cast manifold. Good VFM though. Don't touch the Supra Store. Lots of bad experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Terry, top man, if we go through with the work me dad wants Leon to do it, I hear hes the man OTM. I think I may give him a ring, and get a quote for his labour charges.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra dan Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 thanks terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Interesting read that. Still currently thinking the SP63 though, seen some very nice dyno shapes from that Of course I will probably change my mind again tomorrow, and it's all academic anyway as there's no way I can afford one for some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Same here Thorie-mate.... BUT, if they go.... they go.... just getting gen'd-up with info ready so I'm not flummoxed(sp?) when it suddenly happens - at least I'll know Std'/Hyb'/Single. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.