dandan Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Ok guys, I know the internal differences between the UK and Jap turbos, such as turbine size and material and also wategate size. But I have a couple of questions related to a certain car. The 2nd turbo blew after 52,000 miles (running up to 1.0 bar) and owner tells me that both turbos were then replaced with brand new pair from Turbo Technics about 6 weeks ago. From what I can see of the turbos they certainly look brand new. The car is a 96 Facelift so obviously Jap. I am trying to find out whether the replacements are Jap or UK spec. Can I tell from the external appearance of the turbos (with everything fitted to car.) what they are? Is it possible that steel internals could have been put into Jap housings? And then TTech supply and fit these as replacements? Basically I'm not sure what spec the turbos are and neither is the owner and I'd like to find out. Cheers guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyefi Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 contact turbo technics, they should have the details on file. they certainly wont b ceramic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I thought UK turbo housings couldn't physically fit onto the J-Spec manifold. Or I could just be talking rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Erm hybrids anyone??? It would be the logical answer...and if you have them I would take the car to a rolling road and get the fueling checked as hybrids flow more air that j-specs and will and so you air/fuel ratio maybe fooked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted June 24, 2003 Author Share Posted June 24, 2003 they're not hybrids apparently Alex, as he didn't pay an awful lot for them and he was only after replacements really. I think the pair were in the region of £1000. I don't really want to ask T.Tech toooo many questions as i think he has a friend who works there (or used to). Just wondered if I'd be able to identify Jap or UK with them on the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by dandan I don't really want to ask T.Tech toooo many questions as i think he has a friend who works there (or used to). Unless you're buying a car from a friend, then I wouldn't bother worrying about asking questions. It's not your problem and if the buyer can't provide the full information then it's only to be expected that you would go to the source to find out the details. In this case TT are the source as they produced the turbos' Just my personal opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Interesting that he says it blew running up to 1 bar. I would be interested to know his setup, as a cause for concern myself and probably others here running 1 bar on stock ceramics. Do you know the setup Dan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyefi Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 dan, there could b anything inside em. what does it boost / drive like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 He has the second (lower) cat removed, a trial exhaust, manual bleed valve, HKS gauge with tell tale, and a Turbo Timer. no ither performance mods as far as i know. he said the turbos began to squeal/whistle/etc, took it to his local tuners and they diagnosed a damaged turbo....hence the replacements. Waiting for a fax from t. Tech regarding the spec. The car does seem to pull much better above 3000rpm, but still pulls fairly well in the lower rev range. I can't offer much description/comparison here as my Supra experiences are extremely limited!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Fuel cut defencer is missing, so suspect if it has one of those it's run more than 1 bar with a manual bleed valve. 1 bar is at stock fuel cut, so can't see that that's what's caused the problem. Is it possible that steel internals could have been put into Jap housings? Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but ceramic turbos aren't completely ceramic, it's just the exhaust turbine that is ceramic. The rest is made from steel, aluminium and iron. The only time ceramic turbines are going to be weaker than steel turbines is if pieces of carbon or crap enters the housing. If a turbine goes it usually exits via the exhaust, his shagged turbos are probably down to neglect, i.e. no regular oil changes, turbo abuse, that's led to ruined bearings. No problem there though as it has new turbos now Find out if it has a fuel cut defencer, call me cynical but I can't see someone fitting a manual bleeder valve, just to run it up to 1 bar. I had a Trial exhaust with the 2nd cat out and ran 1 to 1.1 bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 i asked him about a fuel cut and in all honesty he'd never heard of one. He is very honest and has told me loads about the car. He is not a technical person, he entrusts the work to Allan Jeffries Tuning. I haven't had chance to look for the fuel cut as i didn't want to go pulling up carpet and nosing around in the footwell, the first time I met the bloke! I'm hoping to get someone knowledgeable to inspect the car for me (paid of course) and this is one thing i'd like them to check for. Anyone fancy checking the car over??????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by Andrew Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but ceramic turbos aren't completely ceramic, it's just the exhaust turbine that is ceramic. The rest is made from steel, aluminium and iron. You are correct here, but not sure i agree with your other statements. Dan........just buy the damn car will you!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 It must have a Fuel cut defencer to be honest, not a good idea to run 1 to 1.2 bar without one. It's actually quite a sickening feeling when you hit fuel cut, I thought I had blown the engine when I first did it, the car makes a terrible bang and it feels like you've hit something, then the dash lights up. I've been running 1 to 1.1 bar for nearly a year now on stock turbos and haven't had any problems. If the guy says he's run 1 bar and the car runs at 1 bar when you take it out, then that's ok. My only concern would be if it has a manual boost controller attached to the bleeder, this would enable him to run boost to destruction if he chose, as mentioned before you don't know what other things have been put under stress. I may sound like and old worry monger but I wouldn't want someone to buy a Supra, that someone is trying to out because they've had problems, and then pass them on to you. Blown turbos and someone then selling doesn't sit well with me. Sorry to be negative Dan, just don't want you to get landed with a big bill, parts on these cars are very exspensive to replace if something major goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by Martin F You are correct here, but not sure i agree with your other statements. Which ones Martin? I have no problems with being corrected if it helps Dan out, wouldn't want to give him a bum steer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I wouldn't say that the only time ceramics are going to be weaker is when they come into contact with foreign objects, they also don't survive higher EGT's quite as well as their steel bladed counterparts. We have seen a number of failures on Jap turbos when people have increased the boost and i feel that these are most likely due to the higher temps. As for being damaged through neglect i.e. lack of oil changes, i would say that is a dangerous assumption to make as there are just too many factors. Dan - take off the oil cap and have a look at the under side of it, there should be some traces of fairly clear oil and next to no solid deposits. If the underside of the cap is caked in crud then that is a sure sign of missed oil changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 thanks for all your advice guys I really appreciate it. I hope you are not getting annoyed with me asking so many questions (martin) but i'm trying so sort out as many possible problems as possible. The car is too far away for someone like CW to come and look at it so bar an RAC/AA inspection. I'm on my own really. Big bucks if it all goes t!ts up !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Hey i'm only jesting. Ask as many questions as you want. But sometimes all the questions and answers in the world won't help if your gut instinct just isn't right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 ok cool, cheers Martin. I love the car, not too many mods, good cosmetic mods and owner is very honest (just not very knowledgeable!). how helpful is an rac/aa inspection likely to be, i'll check the oil cap(thanks for that) it's just other bits like the fuel cut possibility that's a bit iffy?!? are we thinking that a fuel cut would be a good or a bad thing?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by Martin F As for being damaged through neglect i.e. lack of oil changes, i would say that is a dangerous assumption to make as there are just too many factors. Fair comment, I was just going on my past experience with my previous Supra, just a case of bad maintenance from the previous owner. It needed a new engine and the turbo bearings were shot to bits, so a replacement turbo was fitted. I later found out the owner had neglected oil changes and services. Mind you this is a bad example and as you say too many factors. I can't comment on ETGs temps on ceramics, but wouldn't that not be a problem running 1 bar in this Supras case? I know that's not what I initially said, so not trying to take you out of context Dan like Martin says you will go on gut instinct, I viewed many Supras and one tempted me, but I had a gut feeling the owner wasn't being straight with me. The one after that I bought, didn't even try to knock the price down, I just knew it was the right one. The car you are talking about seems to be setup ok and in the end you'll never know what boost it's been driven at. The only way to be sure is to buy a stocker, and as someone mentioned before on a previous thread, even that could have been modded and returned to stock. You just never know. Fire away with the questions mate, that's what this group is for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 thanks andrew, this car's done 52,000miles which didn't seem a lot to me. Perhaps running the higher boost with top cat still in place increased egt's a lot, leading to quicker death of the turbo? i think i need to find out for definate if a fuel cut is fitted. Is it blatently obvious when i pull back the carpet in the footwell, should i see it or could it have been hidden elsewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by dandan thanks andrew, this car's done 52,000miles which didn't seem a lot to me. Perhaps running the higher boost with top cat still in place increased egt's a lot, leading to quicker death of the turbo? No the heat is exhaust side not in the engine, so that's ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 that's what i meant, running the higher boost at the higher temps (due to localised restriction from the top cat) may have reduced the life of the ceramic turbines perhaps. i may well be wrong! Seems quite low mileage for the turbos to give up don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by dandan it's just other bits like the fuel cut possibility that's a bit iffy?!? are we thinking that a fuel cut would be a good or a bad thing?? I asked this question before Dan, and the anwser was it's not good for the car, I think someone mentioned it puts stress on the drive chain. Come the cold weather and this car will hit fuel cut if it's running 1 bar now in this weather. Personally I think it must have a fuel cut defencer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 do you mean that not having a fuel cut defencer installed is a bad thing and i should be a little happier if he has one installed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by dandan Seems quite low mileage for the turbos to give up don't you think? Yes it does, but they can go at anytime, again we don't know how the car has been driven and at what boost. You'll never know really. All we know is he's had to replace the turbos, and that sounds like running excessive boost. See it it has a manual boost controller attached to the bleeder, then you'll know that he could have cranked up the boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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