Daston Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Hi guys Just done a 50 odd mile run in this lovly weather and noticed that my car is a bit jerky/jittery at 20-30 mph in 3rd gear, even 2nd was a bit jumpy is due to more water in the air (being fog) and going though the induction??? Oh mine is a bog standard N/A (machanicly) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DShox Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 guess the moisture wont help getting sucked into the turbo. even on NAs - you see when cars drive too fast into deep puddles they konk out - thats cos on NAs the intake is quite low so the engine has a nice drink! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra-alex Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 good to know... as mines an sz-r (still not got round to doing the photos....one day one day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyotasuprauk Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I've driven in some really dense fog and the car had no problems. Sorry that doesnt help you but what I'm trying to say is I dont think its normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoboblio Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I would have thought that the cold, moisture filled air would have been great for the health / performance of the car by keeping the inlet temps down... I stand to be corrected of course, are you possibly booting it and getting a boost related missfire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Cars usually run a alittle better in cold damp air. TT owners spend £400 to fit a device that does the same thing as the fog - water injection to cool intake charges. Damp eletrics can cause problems. Make sure all you leads are clean. At this time of year dirty leads will cause problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DShox Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 i can see the logic of cooling. cold air is more dense than hot air - so you can throw more air into your turbo if you achieve sufficient cooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daston Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 Hmm ok I will take a look at my plugs and leads over the weekend thanks for the help guys your the best:thanku: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 The power is in cold DRY air. This is denser than warm dry air. If there are tiny dropplets suspended in the air, the overall result is LESS oxygen molecules, as the water takes up valuable space. Things get further complicated by the fact that the warmer the air, the more water it can hold before it becomes saturated. Much more. I'm not sure what the effects would be if the dropplets make it through the airfilter and cover the MAF as well, some ECUs get confused and think that the air mass is much higher than it really is. That's why water injection is always fitted after the MAF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 guess the moisture wont help getting sucked into the turbo. even on NAs - you see when cars drive too fast into deep puddles they konk out - thats cos on NAs the intake is quite low so the engine has a nice drink! WTF??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 The power is in cold DRY air. This is denser than warm dry air. If there are tiny dropplets suspended in the air, the overall result is LESS oxygen molecules, as the water takes up valuable space. Things get further complicated by the fact that the warmer the air, the more water it can hold before it becomes saturated. Much more. I'm not sure what the effects would be if the dropplets make it through the airfilter and cover the MAF as well, some ECUs get confused and think that the air mass is much higher than it really is. That's why water injection is always fitted after the MAF. It is along time since I last sat in a physics lesson, but I thought H2O being a liquid had the molecules closer together than in air. So there is not an actual loss of Oxygen. We use water to put out fires, but in the confines of a cylinder, the H20 uses heat energy to convert back to gas, thus lowering cylinder temperatures. The extra hydrogen is explosive? So is there a significant reduction in the explosive force in the combustion chamber? Or did I skip that lesson? Serious questions! I just remember our first car was 8bhp( book figure) and we always had to drop into 1st to get up the hill out of the village except on cold often foggy nights when we could do it in second. I may be talking bollox and therefore assume the position of village idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 but in the confines of a cylinder, the H20 uses heat energy to convert back to gas, thus lowering cylinder temperatures. The extra hydrogen is explosive? So is there a significant reduction in the explosive force in the combustion chamber? Or did I skip that lesson.. there are more than one issues here. It's the wrong thread perhaps. But the water does not release the oxygen and hydrogen, not even under the high cylinder pressures. It exits as water vapour. You were thinking of NOS, weren't you? That one breaks the bonds and releases the oxygen, unlike water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DShox Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 correct - the water molecules are very hard to separate into component parts. the 2 H atoms need 1 electron each to complete their "shell", whereas the O atom needs 2 electrons to complete its "shell". what happens is they Covalently Bond (ie share electrons) which is pretty solid. Furthermore - and here's why water behaves funnily in every way, all the bonded water molecules (H2O) now bond with each other through Hydrogen Bonding due to the molecules becoming polarised (i.e. the H2O is more negative on one side and therefore more positive on the other so fellow H2O molecules pull towards one another). So water is very tough to break is what im saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARTIN R Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I have driven mine in some serious fog, have never seen a drop in performance other than me backing off because I cant see:whistle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 I'd better stop spraying water meths into my throttle body then. Just one question though? How do I stop detonation at high boost without it???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daston Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 Ok guys going to have a look at my electrics this weekend how do I get to my sparkplugs?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 In an N/A with a great deal of bother chap. AFAIK the throttle body assy has to come off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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