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The mkiv Supra Owners Club

Why are engines dying? An answer?


Chris Wilson

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Originally posted by Chris Wilson

that now the weather is warmer inlet air temps on some of them are through the roof

 

How many have blown since the weather has been warmer?? I think AK's blew around Xmas.

 

Yeah - I am a cynic, however if I am proved wrong I will certainly hold my hands up :)

 

There are plenty of Supes that run in hotter climes than ours - can all their i/c's be perfect??

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Originally posted by Gordon Flynn

How many have blown since the weather has been warmer?? I think AK's blew around Xmas.

 

Yeah - I am a cynic, however if I am proved wrong I will certainly hold my hands up :)

 

There are plenty of Supes that run in hotter climes than ours - can all their i/c's be perfect??

 

Whatever, but I don't think ANYONE will say an IC without fins that looks like a mangy cat is a good idea, especially on a car mapped for 100 plus octane fuel running on 98 octane at best, with boost raised above stock factory levels?

 

We'll see how many "unburstable" 2JZ-GTE engines start to go pop over the summer, or next year, as the original IC's start to disintegrate.... :sly:

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Slightly as an aside I know, but I was talking with a friend of mine who is a chief aerodynamicist for an F1 team, about the supra, and about intercoolers in particular.

He couldn't believe how small the stock intercooler was for the output of the turbo, and we got onto how to make it more efficient.

He seemed to think that there would be a high pressure area in the enginer bay due to the air going through the intercooler and the rad, which kinda hindered flow through both of these. He suggested totally blocking up the N/S vent opposit maybe with a little hole to not interfere with brake cooling too considerably as he figured the less air blowing into the engine bay area that wasn't passing through either the rad or the intercooler the better.

Just a thought.

Sorry chris for kinda jumping in on your intercooler replacement discussion, but if this proves right then it could help with general cooling.

 

Cheers all,

 

Tony License

'93 Jap GZ

Banbury Oxfordshire

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Hi Tony, I can see the point, let less 'pressurised' air in then the air that does get in will flow better.

 

I think the flaw in this plan for the Supra is, as I remember it, the side vents don't go into the engine bay, but vent into the wheel arches. I may be wrong as this is from memory.

 

p.s. welcome aboard.

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Guest Martin F
Originally posted by Steve Cargill

I think the flaw in this plan for the Supra is, as I remember it, the side vents don't go into the engine bay, but vent into the wheel arches. I may be wrong as this is from memory.

 

 

You are correct, think somebody was quoting from generalisations rather than the specifics of the Supra.

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My 2p.

 

I agree with Chris. Many Mk4's are showing signs of fin errosion on the stock cooler, and we all know that this is a bad thing. I also think that having the OPTION of a replacement SMIC is good for those that simply do not want an FMIC. Personally, for the price difference, (against an HKS S type at say £880.00) fitting a FMIC would be a no-brainer for me but I digress.

 

I would want to be investigating the 'blow-up' situation a little more first. Yes, theres has been more than a few Supra engines going melt-down over the past couple of years but IMO it's more due to the sheer amount of them now and the fact that so many private individuals are fiddling with them that have not got the means to check the final setup.

 

How many people on this board check fuelling after doing a full decat? Or even after a 'regular' 1.2 bar conversion? I'd wager that most of you are still on the stock pumps. Pumps which were barely adequate when new, let alone now with some at 10 years old. What about injector spray patterns? Blocked fuel filters? The list goes on. We fit an uprated pump with every single 1.2 bar conversion now. Paranoid? Or is it that we know the data?

 

Personally I would be more interested in making sure that my actual conversion was right before being worried about some corroded fins...

 

Regards

 

Nathan

TDI PLC

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Nathan, you say the stock fuel pump is barely adequate - does that include UK-spec fuel pumps?

 

While the FMIC is only a bit more expensive, it suffers the problem of knocking out an active spoiler if present, slowing airflow through the AC and water rads, and worst of all, needs to be declared to insurance. It's this last that meakes it a no-goer for me.

 

Changing the fuel filter - is that as much of a bastard of a job as it is on a MKIII?

 

What's the best way to get the fuelling checked when running 1.2bar? (No, I can't afford TDi prices :D ). How about getting the timing adjusted - does that need doing as well? If so, how?

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Originally posted by Keith C Nathan, you say the stock fuel pump is barely adequate - does that include UK-spec fuel pumps?

 

Hi Keith,

 

We all know that the stock UK pump is better than the Jap one, but then most UK cars are on twice the mileage so it doesn't mean a lot. Personally I would fit an uprated pump, period. Jap or UK spec.

 

 

While the FMIC is only a bit more expensive, it suffers the problem of knocking out an active spoiler if present,

 

OK, makes it inactive but having it permanently down isn't a hardship for a lot of people.

 

 

slowing airflow through the AC and water rads,

 

The reduction of airflow over the stock aircon and water rads won't be a problem for 99.9% of the people on this board.

 

 

Changing the fuel filter - is that as much of a bastard of a job as it is on a MKIII?

 

I'm sure theres past threads on this that I have posted before. In short, yes, it can be a real bastard. Or, it can be a 20 minute job. All depends on whether the fittings are siezed into the filter, which is why we also keep the fuel lines in stock if needed. And no, we don't cut them off with oxy-acet ;-)

 

 

What's the best way to get the fuelling checked when running 1.2bar? (No, I can't afford TDi prices :D ).

 

Do you know what my advice would be? Bearing in mind you don't have to have a rolling road or any other expensive machinery I would suggest that 100 members on this board chip in £10 each and buy a group MoTec system. Install the sensor into a custom-made pipe like we have and you can then swop it between cars easily. To be honest I'm surprised that none of you have done it before. I appreciate that it wouldn't really work if no-one knew each other and might mis-use the equipment but theres a lot of long-term members on here that know each other pretty well, and I'm sure it would be looked after. JB could be the official 'owner' and sign it in and out as necessary. Just a thought.

 

 

How about getting the timing adjusted - does that need doing as well? If so, how?

 

Timing is usually fine. Only really needs fiddling with on non-stock turbo setups. Or I should say, the cost is only really justified on non stock turbo setups.

 

Cheers

 

Nathan

TDI PLC

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Cheers for replying Nathan :)

 

With less than 70,000 miles covered I'm hoping the pump will be ok, and yes, making the spoiler inactive won't mess up most people (would me though, ironically - I have a nasty dip as I come out of my garage block). It's the insurance thing which I reckon would probably be the main reason - if you can get insurance for a reasonable price on a big FMIC, then that's obviously the best way to go.

 

It's young owners, or those with a 'checkered' driving record (or, like me, both :D) that are stuffed though, and an SMIC made by anyone has the happy advantage of being classable as an OE replacement part, and therefore doesn't need declaring to insurance. I know I've heard rumours that not everyone has told their ins company everything they have fitted ;) but I also know that I personally can't take that risk, especially if a bit of bacon decides to pull me over and check out my docco.

 

Sod it, I'm selling up and getting a Micra :p :blink: :twak:

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Originally posted by Thor

Keith if you have a wideband fitting put in your Down Pipe, ofr a Bosch wideband sensor, you can take the car periodically to Leon, Chris, or probably TDI ( Nathan?) & get them to plug their analyser in.

 

Ah - just remembered that a mate of mine has a wideband sensor and meter. Have to see if I can pursuade him to help me get it on my car for a test. Can I temporarily tie the 2nd O2 sensor out the way somewhere and use that hole, or would that result in funny readings?

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No you really need a Wideband sensor put in the DP as well as the stock narrow band. CW was doing Bosch ones cheaply a while back from memory. I think everyone with a tuned MKIV should have this anyway. Maybe even include them in new Downpipes, or at least the fitting/plug. BTW make sure your friends analyser is a good one. I had a Lumention one once & it was crap.

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Heh - a triple post.

 

Just had a word with him, he says he has an NGK(? - was a dodgy phone signal) sensor, and he suggested removing the stock lambda sensor temporarily, which admittedly would shaft thing up on closed loop and cruising, but that wouldn't matter as it's WOT that we want to check. Does that seem sensible?

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Yeah, a permanent fitting would be the best thing, but I'm poor (just bought a house :blink: ), so it's something that will have to wait a bit :( Just checking that I'm not about to blow things up big stylee is my main concern :)

 

Bah, who pursuaded me to buy another one...:twak:

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Originally posted by Thor

Yes I am saying to add a permanent WB o2 in the DP, or at least a fitting to take one.

 

Alternatively, mount the sensor at right angle in the middle of a length of say, 1 foot long pipe, 1.5" bore. 1' then goes up the exhaust, the other foot sticks out the back of the car.

 

Unless you've got airleaks in the system (which you shouldn't have if the car uses lambdas) you will get a perfectly good reading and is easily transferred from car to car.

 

Regards,

 

Nathan

TDI PLC

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Originally posted by Thor

You can insert the WB in the exhaust tip as long as it goes in 500mm+ I think leon was modifying a bit of pipe to allow this. This will be the easiest route when available.

 

He said NGK I think - can't get hold of him now, must have gone into a meeting.

 

He suggested up the pipe :blink: :sex: . Sounds kinky :D He said removing the stock sensor temporarily was a more accurate way of measuring though.

 

It's this infernal *second* O2 sensor on UK's that's got me baffled - as CW's UK cat replacement pipes have a fitting for said sensor, I'm wondering if it's possible to remove the 2nd stock O2 sensor (keeping the first stock one wherever it is) and replace it with a WB sensor (not connected to ECU, but to a AFR meter)? If so, it would make my life so much easier as it would mean I already have a fitting in the exhaust I can use. :D This is assuming the 2nd sensor is an O2 one, and I'm not talking out my arse (again).

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Originally posted by Keith C He said removing the stock sensor temporarily was a more accurate way of measuring though.

 

Why? In fact, forget that, we're obviously doing it wrong. Must remember to keep my mouth shut...:D

 

 

It's this infernal *second* O2 sensor on UK's that's got me baffled -

 

The second sensor is there because.....

 

......damn, no-one listens to me anyway...;)

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No, I'm listening :p

 

He was talking about in the context of 200SX tuning, not Supra tuning, so :twak: to you ;) Don't suppose you get many 200's in? (Genuinely curious)

 

What's the 2nd sensor for? If you've said, then my super-sieve brain has managed to forget with blistering speed :D

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