Break in oil

[Boyne]

Hi lads,lassys, can anyone help which grade type of oil on a new short block and reconditioned head, semi, fully, or mineral. I was going to run 10w 40 shell h7 semi for 500miles then switch to my normal shell ultra 10w60, any input be appreciated.

[Swampy442]

@Mike2JZ will be the guy to ask

[Mike2JZ]

Normally run engine in using mineral oil 10w40 or Motorsport Competition Running In Oil from Millers. 

Typically limit the RPM on the engines whilst using this oil dand dont get the oil super hot (110C+) for prolonged periods. 

[Boyne]

Thats great information thanks will do that.

[rider]

It is common to add or use a ZDDP additive as either an oil additive or as part of the engine oil blend to protect the surfaces during the bedding break in process. This is an old technology that is well proven to provide a hardened wear resistant phosphate surface coating to moving steel parts (its heat activated so the more friction then the greater the film lay down protection). In the old days of 50 years ago pretty much every engine oil contained 0.2% ZDDP and fuels did to but this was reduced over time due to environmental concerns and also high levels of phosphates aren't cat friendly. Even dosed up oils these days catering to classic car or racing markets rarely contain more than 0.1% ZDDP with 0.06% being a fairly common treatment level. 

It'd be worth you taking some time out to do some background reading on the benefits and pitfalls to adding a ZDDP oil additive or using a ZDDP containing oil for break in say initial 1,000 mile period. You only get to break in an engine once so its worth putting time into the initial oil choice.

[Boyne]

Ok will speak to the oil supplier see what he can come up with, his solution was this?

[rider]

You are best avoiding a standard VW and Merc spec oil as break in oils benefit from having anti-wear additive content and also lower detergency additive levels than normal running oil. If you read up on both those attributes you'll learn why those two, in particular, are important. 

[Boyne]

My supplier is not a fan of this millers stuff. Can you or anyone recommend a particular oil brand and spec. I have time as the twin turbos are gone back to own developments 

[Mike2JZ]

Use what your suppliers wants then?

[Boyne]

Ok mike iv gone back to him, said im not happy with that mineral oil, he is going get onto shell and exol direct, do i need to just do one break in oil, as in switch to synthetic after 500miles on the break in oil?

[rider]

You can lead a horse but sometimes.

I know a little bit about oils, I worked for Castrol for a good few years and some of that in the product development labs blending and formulating engine oils from components (not the ad pack type of blending). You are best reading around the subject matter yourself and I gave you pointers where to focus your efforts. That way you will be taking an informed decision yourself on your break in oil and not one persons recommendation, which is by its very nature an individuals viewpoint. If you read around the subject area, you'll learn something and be better for it. 

Mineral break in oils are fine btw. Synthetic oils, unless ester or PAO based which are rare these days are all mineral oil based. Its just solvent refined mineral oil, still mineral oil though.

[Boyne]

4 hours ago, rider said:

You can lead a horse but sometimes.

I know a little bit about oils, I worked for Castrol for a good few years and some of that in the product development labs blending and formulating engine oils from components (not the ad pack type of blending). You are best reading around the subject matter yourself and I gave you pointers where to focus your efforts. That way you will be taking an informed decision yourself on your break in oil and not one persons recommendation, which is by its very nature an individuals viewpoint. If you read around the subject area, you'll learn something and be better for it. 

Mineral break in oils are fine btw. Synthetic oils, unless ester or PAO based which are rare these days are all mineral oil based. Its just solvent refined mineral oil, still mineral oil though.

Would 20w 50 be to thick, valvoline  it has very high zddp content?

[Burna]

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-and-fluids/motorsport-oil/millers-oils-cro-10w40-motorsport-running-in-oil---5l-417798.html?cm_mmc=Google+PLA-_-Motoring>Motoring+Products>Engine+Oils+and+Fluids>Motorsport+Oil-_-Motoring>Motoring+Products>Engine+Oils+&+Fluids>Motorsport+Oil-_-417798&_$ja=tsid:|cid:17372421495|agid:|tid:|crid:|nw:x|rnd:2508156401812856183|dvc:c|adp:|mt:|loc:9045475&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1_SkBhDwARIsANbGpFvXoUXNDPYnBorjp4IDe2aCE6wgckybFF6bcHWp-jqHWzqxGCGmOiMaAvlGEALw_wcB

Or:

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-115257-millers-oils-mineral-multi-viscosity-motorsport-competition-running-in-oil.aspx

 

There's a club discount too with Opie Oils if you are a paid up club member

[rider]

For a new build engine that has not been builder or factory run in then you need a build oil and not any off the shelf general running oil. This is because build oils have a very specific task to bed things in properly, so some wear is required on lobes, shafts, ring edges and on honing marks. The things you don't want in a build oil is detergents (all running oils have detergents). These are additives used in running oils to maintain the oil condition from oxidation arising from heat and blow by products, running oils might be in the engine for 20,000 miles a break in oil isn't so it doesn't need them. Detergents slow down the bedding process so you don't want them. In the video I link they talk about TBN (total base number) being a bad thing, detergents are the additives with the TBN.

You don't want any friction modifiers at all, no molly additives anywhere near. Friction modifiers will kill the bedding process pretty much stone dead. They aren't common in running oils but they are used in some more specialist 'high performance' products from the smaller lube companies. So avoid friction 'enhanced' oils like the plague. 

You do want ZDDP, I'd say at least 1200ppm with tops 2,000ppm. That is purely a personal viewpoint though. Some oils come super dosed with ZDDP, Lucas Oil do one with 3,000ppm. That is too much anti-wear for a bedding in breaking in oil. Some ZDDP marketed oils only contain 600ppm, that's on the low side of being much use. So look for the break in oils with over 1,000ppm but no more than 2,000ppm. I'd go for the closer to the top of the range the better myself, all oils 40 years ago had 2,000ppm pretty much as standard.

This video, with really bad sound quality, gives an engineers viewpoint on build oils and they make a lot of good points in a non chemistry kind of way. As a one time chemist myself I find their tech speak smile inducing but they know a lot more about the metallurgical side of things than I would ever hope to know.

Selecting the manufacturer of the oil you have two choices, the big boys like Mobil, Quaker State, Castrol, Shell etc who do their own in-house formulation work and engine testing or you go for a small outfit who will buy in an additive package, blend it with a provided recipe of base oils and market a product that has only ever been engine tested by their additive package provider. Companies like Morris Lubricants who operate out of a 6 acre blending shop and warehouse in the centre of Shrewsbury won't have run an engine test in their history.