MANY ECU's FAILING - ANY CLUB MEMBERS KNOW WHY?

[herbiemercman]

Apparently a lot of ECU's are failing, and someone told me that one of the main causes  is the capacitors leaking out the internal liquid that they have inside. The person who told me said it was thought to be a faulty batch but did not know how many were involved. Most of the cars we have are more than twenty years old so the ECU components in general cannot be that bad, and the faulty batch may just be true.

My ECU is going to Keron at "Extrem Performance" early next week for testing, and i am not sure how they test them, i can't see them just putting it on another car and seeing how it runs for ten minutes? i say this as my car currently is running perfectly, but can fail anytime, i have had it run perfectly for 6 weeks and then it failed, overfuelling, misfiring etc. so you need a test system that can tell if your ECU has an intermittent fault.

In the UK, or may be at Keron's, do we have Electronic experts that can recondition, or repair, our ECU's?

My car i have owned from new and only done 60K miles and my problem only started some months back.

[Ric]

Its more than likely the age. All the cars at least 20 years+ old now.

[Burna]

Capacitors eventually leak due to age, in many different old electronic equipment. It's just another one of those things that go hand in hand with owning and running an old car.

Getting them repaired is a bit hit and miss from what I've observed.

[rider]

I had a fairly long talk with Chris Wilson over my possible Trac ECU issue as he used to have access to repairs on these things. He said he wasn't aware of any outfit in the UK that can test a Supra ECU. The best they do is change out failed components or ones that are bulging and look set to fail and send it back. They have no bench test capability to simulate sensor readings and ECU responses. He did suggest that I, and presumably others consider going modern ECU's on the core functions which isn't cheap as it entails wiring in, the cost of the ECU's and then setting up; mapping in situ. It would presumably bring some benefit in faster processing times over our 30 year old ECU's. 

Toyota still have some ECU's available. There are a few potential pitfalls with this option. First up when were these ECU's assembled by Denso, possibly back in 1992? Secondly, they are expensive - very expensive. Chris also mentioned he worked on a Supra with a main ECU problem and the owner bought 4 of eBay before they finally had one that worked. That likely cost a fortune in scrap ECU's.

So, it looks like the best option to future proof is to upgrade to modern ECU's. Then it should be good for another 20 - 30 years. That could cost as much as a V160 gearbox though.

 

[herbiemercman]

Hi rider, I am with you on this for the upgrade ECU's, what kind of money are you talking? and where can i buy one?

[Scooter]

The problem from a plug and play point of view with upgraded ECU's is you are then reliant on the mapping. I suspect OEM ECU's have many many hours of days from a whole team who last week were doing the same on a previous model and hence it's very smooth in all conditions and safe etc etc.

I don't think there is a plug and play option as such the best you can hope for it a place that's done loads before and so have base maps and good experience to tweak them.

Yours is an NA-T and so is an ideal candidate for a after market ECU as the stock NA ECU isn't ideal for that setup?

[herbiemercman]

Just had a long chat with Chris he tells me that on an NA engine fitting a modern ECU is big bucks, circa £5,000 and another £1,000 for the mapping. You need different sensors, new wiring harness, etc, a big job and there are few tuners who will attempt the job.

[Dnk]

What about somewhere like this https://www.avilec.co.uk/

 

[mharvey]

8 hours ago, herbiemercman said:

Just had a long chat with Chris he tells me that on an NA engine fitting a modern ECU is big bucks, circa £5,000 and another £1,000 for the mapping. You need different sensors, new wiring harness, etc, a big job and there are few tuners who will attempt the job.

Herbie, that may have been the case a long time ago but there are certainly much cheaper options.

A syvecs ECU will probably set you back nigh on that but you have options.

 

But something like the Link g4 is plug and play, so no need to change wiring harness etc. It works perfectly with the NA harness and whilst you’d undoubtedly benefit from a few extra sensors it won’t cost you £6k.

 

As a fellow NA-T owner I think you’d be well worth going stand-alone ECU both for the future proofing, diagnostics and to save you (as mentioned above, wasting money on countless stock and aged ECU’s)

 

Speak to SRD, they supplied my Link. They’re like £1.5k. There will be fitting, mapping and some wiring for extra sensors but I’m sure you’ll get a very nice chunk of change from £6k

[Big Supes]

As a retro gamer, defective capacitors is a common thing. With most systems, traders either offer a capacitor kit for enthusiasts to solder in or you can send the whole board off to them and they'll do it for you. I'd probably go down the latter route if I was still running my OG ECU. 

In reality, I don't see any upsides of trying to salvage old ECU's when there are superior replacements out there at a reasonable price.

Tbh, I wouldn't trust old hardware once it's starting to play up, especially given what can go wrong should they have a bad day in the office. 

The Link G4X is made for the job and given to the right mapper, the car will be freed from the failing hardware, the crudely safe map that was put on by Toyota (to fit all) back in the 90's and you'll have all the upsides of a modern ECU in terms of a tailored map for engine efficiency, data logging, engine protection, car theft security, valet mode and the list goes on. 

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Big Supes (see edit history)

[herbiemercman]

Hi Guys, Thank you all for your help: Ric, Burna, rider, Scooter, Dnk, mharvey and BigSupes.

Basically if i can get the funds together i know i need to update and replace the ECU and all its senders etc. meanwhile i have to fix the problem i have.

I imported my car from Cork in Ireland in 1996, just 1,000 KM on the clock, it is a 2JZ GE. NA.model. 5 speed manual. The car has never missed a beat and in 2015 i had a NAT conversion at Rocket Dog Racing, (Craig Attard), in Cardiff, this gave me 450 BHP and the performance was fantastic. He used the Emanage Blue piggy back in partnership with the OEM standard ECU. I did not know at the time that none of the Mappers in the UK would get involved now due to the Emanage, this has been a problem for me especially in 2021 when i had to fit a new cylinder head gasket and a different exhaust system, i could not get the MAP checked.

The over fueling problem which i now have, has been, and still is, a nightmare situation due to the problem being intermittent for several weeks, it was OK for a few days and then it would return, however in the past few days the problem returns now as soon as the engine gets up to temperature, from cold it starts perfectly and ticks over smoothly, then after 20 minutes it starts to reek of petrol, only running on three cylinders, black smoke, etc, bad over fueling.

Due to the problem being heat related then the ECU, which is in a cool area i have eliminated. My investigations now are the senders, the MAP sensor, the throttle plenum air temperature senders, the coolant temperature sender to the ECU, not the camshaft and crank senders, inside the distributer body, this is because Keron (Extreme Performance) told me he has never known these fail on a 2JZ GE engine. Keron is going to let me have the senders i now need. I badly need some sort of Star diagnostics kit to help locate where i need to start looking and changing parts. Can any of you tell me where i might get one? I don't like the paper clip way with the flashing light method.

[herbiemercman]

MODERN UPGRADE JOB: Does any of you have contact information for clued up Tuners who could fit me a new modern ECU without a piggy back,  all new sensors/senders, and carry out a new full remap.

All other items in the NAT conversion, like, exhaust system, the turbo, air cooler, oil cooler, all guages, AFR guage, oil temp gauge, boost gauge,etc.remain.

Some of you have mentioned: "SYVECS", (mharvey). "AVILEC". (Dnk).  Chris Wilson recommended Frazer MacKeller "MOTEC". I do not know Paul "Whiffbits" but some of you may think he would do the job?

Any info you can give me will be well appreciated

 

[Tyson]

1 hour ago, herbiemercman said:

MODERN UPGRADE JOB: Does any of you have contact information for clued up Tuners who could fit me a new modern ECU without a piggy back,  all new sensors/senders, and carry out a new full remap.

All other items in the NAT conversion, like, exhaust system, the turbo, air cooler, oil cooler, all guages, AFR guage, oil temp gauge, boost gauge,etc.remain.

Some of you have mentioned: "SYVECS", (mharvey). "AVILEC". (Dnk).  Chris Wilson recommended Frazer MacKeller "MOTEC". I do not know Paul "Whiffbits" but some of you may think he would do the job?

Any info you can give me will be well appreciated

 

Mappers/Tuners will have a preferred ECU that they work with, so first you need to work our which ECU you want to go with or be happy to go with the one that the garage recommends. Are you planning to go with the Link ECU?

[mharvey]

5 hours ago, herbiemercman said:

MODERN UPGRADE JOB: Does any of you have contact information for clued up Tuners who could fit me a new modern ECU without a piggy back,  all new sensors/senders, and carry out a new full remap.

All other items in the NAT conversion, like, exhaust system, the turbo, air cooler, oil cooler, all guages, AFR guage, oil temp gauge, boost gauge,etc.remain.

Some of you have mentioned: "SYVECS", (mharvey). "AVILEC". (Dnk).  Chris Wilson recommended Frazer MacKeller "MOTEC". I do not know Paul "Whiffbits" but some of you may think he would do the job?

Any info you can give me will be well appreciated

 

 

If you read my post mate, the SYVECS is a lot more money and considering the rest of your spec, it might be slight overkill (though depends on long term goals)

 

I recommended the Link G4 plug and play. 
It's a standalone ECU and the link stuff has great support. It's also very well priced. Plus it's effectively plug and play (although you will need/want some other sensors and inputs)

 

SRD are very familiar with fitting them and mapping them and I can certainly recommend them. 

Likewise Whifbitz stock them so I'm sure they can map one but I've not had any personal experience. 

[Big Supes]

6 hours ago, herbiemercman said:

MODERN UPGRADE JOB: Does any of you have contact information for clued up Tuners who could fit me a new modern ECU without a piggy back,  all new sensors/senders, and carry out a new full remap.

All other items in the NAT conversion, like, exhaust system, the turbo, air cooler, oil cooler, all guages, AFR guage, oil temp gauge, boost gauge,etc.remain.

Some of you have mentioned: "SYVECS", (mharvey). "AVILEC". (Dnk).  Chris Wilson recommended Frazer MacKeller "MOTEC". I do not know Paul "Whiffbits" but some of you may think he would do the job?

Any info you can give me will be well appreciated

 

@Mike2JZ@SRD is your man if you're willing to ship the car over here.

Maybe someone can recommend a place in Ireland, if not. 

[herbiemercman]

Hi Big Supes, Can you tell me how to contact Mike2JZ@SRD, i also do not know where he is located. Thank you for your help.

[herbiemercman]

Thank you mharvey for the info, i have also just got the same recomendations from Big Supes.

[Big Supes]

1 hour ago, herbiemercman said:

Hi Big Supes, Can you tell me how to contact Mike2JZ@SRD, i also do not know where he is located. Thank you for your help.

Hi mate,

Your best bet is to email: [email protected] and Lee will take care of you. 

SRD are based in Haywards Heath, West Sussex. 

[maximuskey]

I had this problem a few months ago with my Jspec TT manual. Earlier this year, it started over fueling like crazy. It was had a strong fuel smell, blew white smoke, and had oil leaking out of the exhaust.

I had it trailered to Whifbitz and had the turbos replaced (138k miles) and other maintenance done. After all that, the over fueling still persisted on their test ride. Paul then said they swapped in a used ecu they had and it worked fine. They tried to send my ecu off for repair to their ecu guys, but they said they couldn't find the problem. They ended up sourcing me a used A/T ecu that works fine for me now.

There is always that fear that this same problem can happen again since this ecu is also used. Well, at least I have some fresh hybrid turbos now!

[rider]

For ECU upgrades there are a couple of names I hear bandied around; Link and Motec. It'd be useful for those considering an 'upgrade' to have some feedback on these ECU's in a Supra and access to any comparative data/information. If you go to SRD I believe you go Link.

[Style]

For the majority of owners on here, a modern standalone ECU will do the job regardless of brand. It's all down to what the mapper prefers really. Until you're building some sort of all out / balls to the wall machine a ~£1000 standalone ECU will do just fine. The best process, imo, is to find a competent mapper that you're happy to go to and go with the ECU they're happiest working with. Car will run fine on any of them, provided it's healthy elsewhere and mapped competently.

• Link
• ECUMaster
• Haltech
• AEM
• Syvecs - Top end of budget
• Motec - Top end of budget

[Andy Ven]

Imo, if you are on a fully stock car. Keep the stock ecu. Dont go aftermarket. You will strugge to get an aftermarket one to control as good as the stock one without spending days upon days mapping it. And also you would be required to change such things as knock sensors as the stock ones are hard to utilise on any other ecu than the stock one. 

I have a link ecu. And like anything, its only as good as the map thats on it. If i was on a stock car, i would not buy an aftermarket ecu after toyota spent 1000,s of hours making the tune to begin with

[herbiemercman]

Thanks for the info guys. SRD Tuning, are recommending the Link in their quote, i thought this was manufactured by Syvecs? also they have the free software to download for your laptop and diagnostics fault code jobs?

[herbiemercman]

Andy Ven, The old Toyota ECU's are starting to fail,  Keron at Extreme Performance told me the ECU's are failing a lot now they are over 20 years old, many sensors are the same, so if you want reliability and longevity, your best choice is an upgrade and remap, OK you are looking at circa £4K. and a 500 mile journey for me living in Preston Lancs, unfortunately SRD Tuning are in West Sussex 250 miles away, car transporter another £350.

The good news should come from the reduction of  stress due to having an engine with moderized ECU and the senders etc.

[Swampy442]

1 hour ago, herbiemercman said:

Thanks for the info guys. SRD Tuning, are recommending the Link in their quote, i thought this was manufactured by Syvecs? also they have the free software to download for your laptop and diagnostics fault code jobs?

Link arent manufactured by Syvecs, they are their own company, long standing with great support. I have a Link in my car