700hp. Pistons only, or rods?

[Noz]

Any thoughts on what's needed for a rebuild.

Block will only see 750hp max.

Could use oem but while it's open parts are cheap so thought might as well.

Is it worth just doing rods anyway?

[Luxluc]

I would go safe and do pistons and rods.

[tayr]

it's like ordering pasta at a restaurant and saying no when they ask if you'd like parmesan..

everybody goes for the parmesan

[AC93]

Pistons and rods, future proof it 

I was in the same boat during my build, OEM refresh or upgrade. Now the block is rated to 1000hp (only sees 700ish) and I have zero worries, it's under stressed and won't blow up (touch wood!)

[Mugello]

"Might as well whilst in there" has been my approach, hence its still a project car years later

Its little extra work to put rods in there to be honest, I'd suggest going ARP hardware everywhere too.

[Noz]

47 minutes ago, Mugello said:

"Might as well whilst in there" has been my approach, hence its still a project car years later

Its little extra work to put rods in there to be honest, I'd suggest going ARP hardware everywhere too.

Yeah makes sense. I've ARP stuff anyway even though stock parts.

I'm still undecided if I want to even fix anything. I might just go crazy and not waste money on this.

[tayr]

51 minutes ago, Noz said:

Yeah makes sense. I've ARP stuff anyway even though stock parts.

I'm still undecided if I want to even fix anything. I might just go crazy and not waste money on this.

poor man pays twice

[Annabella]

18 minutes ago, tayr said:

Confucius say: poor man pays twice

 

[Noz]

1 hour ago, tayr said:

poor man pays twice

You're bias. You know my plans

[markssupra]

I went billet mains as well when I built my engine, full Arp, pistons, rods, fully balanced etc just to future proof it while it was in bits.

[Celicasaur]

I thought the world and his dog had us believe the 2JZ GTE was borderline holy and could handle 800hp reliably on the stock block....so why is there so much concern about 700-750hp max? Genuine question.

[Burna]

3 hours ago, Celicasaur said:

I thought the world and his dog had us believe the 2JZ GTE was borderline holy and could handle 800hp reliably on the stock block....so why is there so much concern about 700-750hp max? Genuine question.

Not on an old tired engine it wont mate. Best to rebuild it.

[Noz]

9 hours ago, Celicasaur said:

I thought the world and his dog had us believe the 2JZ GTE was borderline holy and could handle 800hp reliably on the stock block....so why is there so much concern about 700-750hp max? Genuine question.

It can. But not forever. Service items like rings may be few and far between but nothing lasts forever I suppose.

[Big Supes]

11 hours ago, Celicasaur said:

I thought the world and his dog had us believe the 2JZ GTE was borderline holy and could handle 800hp reliably on the stock block....so why is there so much concern about 700-750hp max? Genuine question.

I think it depends on the type of usage. For street, I wouldn't forge mine for that power output unless I had money burning a hole in my pocket. 

Forging an engine for that power output will only conseal an issue for a while longer. You're better off investing in the ecu, tune and safety cutoffs. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Big Supes (see edit history)

[Noz]

10 hours ago, Big Supes said:

I think it depends on the type of usage. For street, I wouldn't forge mine for that power output unless I had money burning a hole in my pocket. 

Forging an engine for that power output will only conseal an issue for a while longer. You're better off investing in the ecu, tune and safety cutoffs. 

You're indicating the tune causes rings to go. Isn't that a dangerous assumption? Especially when rings aren't forged and pistons wouldn't fix anything that's causing rings to go  assuming it's a particular characteristic of the current setup.

Have to say lad I actually don't agree with the second part of what you're saying here.

[Big Supes]

19 minutes ago, Noz said:

You're indicating the tune causes rings to go. Isn't that a dangerous assumption? Especially when rings aren't forged and pistons wouldn't fix anything that's causing rings to go  assuming it's a particular characteristic of the current setup.

Have to say lad I actually don't agree with the second part of what you're saying here.

You're misunderstanding what I've said and what to worry about when choosing to go forged or not.

I wasn't indicating "rings" let go due to poor engine tuning/running conditions. Rings are the last of your worries when factoring detonation, excessive heat and knock. 

You're welcome to disagree, but to reiterate, going forged will only raise the tolerances, but won't cure a poorly running/tuned engine when talking about this power level. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Big Supes (see edit history)

[Noz]

54 minutes ago, Big Supes said:

You're misunderstanding what I've said and what to worry about when choosing to go forged or not.

I wasn't indicating "rings" let go due to poor engine tuning/running conditions. Rings are the last of your worries when factoring detonation, excessive heat and knock. 

You're welcome to disagree, but to reiterate, going forged will only raise the tolerances, but won't cure a poorly running/tuned engine when talking about this power level. 

Now I get ye. I agree. Opens the window to allow for issues though doesn't solve them. I think the topic of problems got a bit muddied then mate. Do agree with it opening band for errors.

Was just relating to the first post thats all. Aligned now mate.

You forged?

[Celicasaur]

Yeah my intention is street use on a Greddy T88 34D set up and i'd like a nice 700-750hp on pump fuel.....i'll live with the lag.

Looks like I'll need to invest in a nice Link G4 soon..... I'm still collecting parts and not in a huge hurry, but it's definitely on the menu.

[Big Supes]

7 hours ago, Noz said:

Now I get ye. I agree. Opens the window to allow for issues though doesn't solve them. I think the topic of problems got a bit muddied then mate. Do agree with it opening band for errors.

Was just relating to the first post thats all. Aligned now mate.

You forged?

All good buddy, just trying to clarify. 

My engine is unopened, but I'm thinking about an inspection and refresh this winter as I'm adding cams and increasing the fuelling so it'll be a good time to have a nosy. 

That being said, if it's still making decent compression, I may look to just service the water and oil pump and belts/tensioners. I'm in two minds so will see how things unfold. 

[Burna]

37 minutes ago, Big Supes said:

All good buddy, just trying to clarify. 

My engine is unopened, but I'm thinking about an inspection and refresh this winter as I'm adding cams and increasing the fuelling so it'll be a good time to have a nosy. 

That being said, if it's still making decent compression, I may look to just service the water and oil pump and belts/tensioners. I'm in two minds so will see how things unfold. 

It’s the shell bearings I would be worrying mate if I was you, and the pistons, been there done that, caught one just in time, the other too late, hence fully forged now. 

[Thorin]

On 4/14/2022 at 3:01 PM, Celicasaur said:

Yeah my intention is street use on a Greddy T88 34D set up and i'd like a nice 700-750hp on pump fuel.....i'll live with the lag.

Looks like I'll need to invest in a nice Link G4 soon..... I'm still collecting parts and not in a huge hurry, but it's definitely on the menu.

Your user name is apt, that's an old dinosaur of a turbo.

[Big Supes]

On 4/14/2022 at 5:06 PM, Burna said:

It’s the shell bearings I would be worrying mate if I was you, and the pistons, been there done that, caught one just in time, the other too late, hence fully forged now. 

Sorry mate, been hideously busy recently. 

That's true, but I think your case is a perfect example of why the tune is the most important factor when dealing with the level of load the OP talking about. 

Your engine is happy now, not due to being forged, but because it has been mapped and has all the correct supporting mods; remove them and run the single set up on stock UK-Spec ECU and fuelling and it'll still kill a forged engine. 

[Burna]

On 4/24/2022 at 5:39 PM, Big Supes said:

Sorry mate, been hideously busy recently. 

That's true, but I think your case is a perfect example of why the tune is the most important factor when dealing with the level of load the OP talking about. 

Your engine is happy now, not due to being forged, but because it has been mapped and has all the correct supporting mods; remove them and run the single set up on stock UK-Spec ECU and fuelling and it'll still kill a forged engine. 

No I meant the actual wear that has already happened on the engine parts on an old tired engine. The tune wasn't the cause of my problems, ring lands going on stock pistons are becoming more and more common now. Luckily for me that failure caused a strip down of my engine, which then showed that the big end bearings had come to the end of their life anyway, beyond in fact, but caught just in time. We reckon if they had done one more hard run across Europe I could have span a shell! Which would have caused a lot more damaged, so I see it has a good thing my piston went when it did!

A single turbo on a stock UK spec ecu will not kill a stock engine mate, a dyno run showed it would run ok fueling wise etc... Mine had a dyno run on 264 cams, which showed it to just start leaning out, but the cams were only fitted just prior to the trip down to SRD. What is true is that it doesn't drive great on a stock ECU, as in driveability, not the fuelling etc.. But after a proper aftermarket ECU, and a good mapper, the car now drives like a stock car, but on a single turbo. It's drives so smooth and is easy to drive with no lag

It's the extra load of more boost or a single turbo on original parts, that have seen thousands of heat cycles and revolutions over the many years these cars have done now, that will show up the weaknesses and will cause a failure to a stock original unopened engine.

[Noz]

31 minutes ago, Burna said:

No I meant the actual wear that has already happened on the engine parts on an old tired engine. The tune wasn't the cause of my problems, ring lands going on stock pistons are becoming more and more common now. Luckily for me that failure caused a strip down of my engine, which then showed that the big end bearings had come to the end of their life anyway, beyond in fact, but caught just in time. We reckon if they had done one more hard run across Europe I could have span a shell! Which would have caused a lot more damaged, so I see it has a good thing my piston went when it did!

A single turbo on a stock UK spec ecu will not kill a stock engine mate, a dyno run showed it would run ok fueling wise etc... Mine had a dyno run on 264 cams, which showed it to just start leaning out, but the cams were only fitted just prior to the trip down to SRD. What is true is that it doesn't drive great on a stock ECU, as in driveability, not the fuelling etc.. But after a proper aftermarket ECU, and a good mapper, the car now drives like a stock car, but on a single turbo. It's drives so smooth and is easy to drive with no lag

It's the extra load of more boost or a single turbo on original parts, that have seen thousands of heat cycles and revolutions over the many years these cars have done now, that will show up the weaknesses and will cause a failure to a stock original unopened engine.

I'm not sure any turbo capable of 700hp can have "no" lag. but that's a whole other topic to be fair mate.

[Burna]

20 minutes ago, Noz said:

I'm not sure any turbo capable of 700hp can have "no" lag. but that's a whole other topic to be fair mate.

Lol Don't nitpick and be a twat , you know what I mean  I meant compared to just cruising around, whereas on the UK stock ECU it didn't drive as smooth, and felt 'laggy', on the Link and mapped it cruises and drives like a stock car. And with full boost at 4000rpm, and keeping it on boost with the right gear when kicking it's head in I don't notice any lag.