NEED A REPLACEMENT TURBO FOR MY NA/T.

[herbiemercman]

HI GUYS, MY TURBO NEEDS REPLACING OR REPAIRING, MY LOCAL REPAIR SHOP, "TURBO FORCE" ARE HAVING DIFFICULTY SOURCING THE PARTS, THE BEARING, OIL SEAL OR A CARTRIDGE. MINE WAS FITTED BY "ROCKET DOG RACING" IT IS A T4. MODEL: T61 70/68  14. THAT IS ALL THE INFO I HAVE. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT OTHER MAKE WOULD REPLACE IT, ALSO WOULD I THEN REQUIRE A RE-MAP?

[tayr]

@Noz may have one

[Noz]

Herbie. Using Caps makes it harder for read. Please don't use caps lock on when typing bud.

Craig at rocket dog, would have just placed the turbo on the manifold.

It looks like a generic T61 turbo to me. The 70/68 refers to the spec on the exhaust turbine. The T61, usually means the inducer wheel is 61mm. Though these have often been bigger, and some closer to 68mm.

The T4 is the flange specification. This is the 4 bolt, rectangle pattern for the exhaust manifold.

Unless you are able to source from the original supplier, in the case of generic turbo's its going to be critical you have a remap. If the new turbo flows more efficiently, you risk leaning out, and blowing the engine.

Here is the nearest solution I can find for your sizing and HP rating;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234080965649?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=234080965649&targetid=1279039638849&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1006707&poi=&campaignid=12126078222&mkgroupid=126374355007&rlsatarget=pla-1279039638849&abcId=9300480&merchantid=115752149&gclid=CjwKCAjw7rWKBhAtEiwAJ3CWLGYcmpSkAyEotJi4lk0niKncGDWMjBPEclEtVg9exzttZ1Cn-gcGihoCRWUQAvD_BwE

Another option is spending a bit more money on a main stream supplier turbo. I'm not selling my Garrett 62mm OCDworks turbo just yet, as tagged by the wonderful @tayr .

A competitor to the T61 from this era, is the GT35 turbo from Garrett, however the term "GT35" was then copied but many other generic random turbo companies. So GT35 is now a similar sized turbo but from random generic companies.

Here is a GT35 tubro utilising the T4 flange size for your manifold.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224326582640?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item343ae80170:g:G60AAOSwcCpgDO8-&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACkPYe5NmHp%2B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSvtkx670Z0mbyfWqmxLFLYbL1UfRi9hdlOGVHsYm1amKIHKbHimitaSgrlJqfN3wsekvfoCpYw8ebAXDA2z1aoSYuFITV0lLUQZazh%2FXV7KFaL7mu5PyYOyjOX%2Fs8aSUXie3OnsogmKFh8UrUWYh0OWINAGcKmnOCOPNpj3k72JRT%2BSeuY4vb2p1ACHaJLp2%2FS0QsJbKLd5%2BO%2B%2BJx7Xr%2Fvcu7Mz%2BTG6cCfC6tOeNK5YZFyAmAvMKGcb1iKTrMlye3zSQI789Y0%2BWFI%2Bs0TFd58OeZb78XGQ6WMWiGFHMknU6nnHjZ96cr03vLW3f7tbYtWEC2Epnb5KwXRqHxYMiqh%2FsDX9b6tSyHb8j3AMo4likXOkerfMg6hgzefagUxPgj2RFBY1FexHo0H9qaM81SiqgOLtreSYdlZ1ioyrfb6U%2Ftc0K%2BRo5mpIEatwF3vkQ1k%2FTXum%2FNpNSRQwddMhrF9yXi821tV%2BeNv4wyDoGSIvDPrsg0m3BpcK19gWP%2BeUzAVr2PZK7MsSpPcsccUatXLRUerZaoaRP7VDFOUatpU7nrOwv0vug6Ynhh%2BKJJqbE6tkP%2FNzXsV5EiGZhsEjGDG3oIu2pCHAgFL%2B20mysJlcWIH%2BcQkwzDLs8o1KI0MnrXJPI%2BNkyTnDyphLLYWykQ9RWvwEgkwFpu357QAZqiD9gWHlsifQN21S4VREQFLWQbELsR6APxQ0uxpHL4D2MphUIFPNOnfUx5MDiRDHeXZAqsatQOBt6gj%2B97d5L63LlM3XUhXwDtAAFQa0o5BQzebHGx%2BMFqPC8U6TwfZGUL69W7NaYUFJ5PnElOzGSGXwza|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2334524

You have to keep in mind also, the exhaust outlet. I expect it will be 3 inch vband. As this is the typical size until you get to a huuuuge sized turbo.

Either of those would produce similar results expected to your old turbo. eBay search GT35 turbo, match the T4 flange size and take your pick.

Remap is going to be essential. The least you can do, is remap it on the road tweaking the fuelling. I wouldn't waste time trying to rebuild it. Just get a new one.

If you're unsure about buying another generic turbo. Whifbitz offers a good range of Borg Warner turbos for I believe less than a grand. That is what I would do in your situation. Cheaper turbo's have less quality checks and have a higher statistical chance of failing. Though my old one has lasted nearly 10 years of boosting (with the new owner), it's a gamble on a new generic made turbo with no history.

[herbiemercman]

Hi Noz, A great detailed, technical reply, much appreciated, i will follow up on it. Just a point i would like to know. Because i have a good quality AFR fitted, am i right in thinking that if i fit a new Garrett T4,or equivalent, i should be able to see if i start "leaning out".?

When i experienced the failing of my turbo the engine was very lumpy and misfiring etc, and the AFR ratio was reading 7 to 1, it would normally be more like 14 to 1. When i removed the turbo completely,  the engine started straight away on the normal cold start fast tick over and then after 15 minutes it had a perfect smooth tick over, presumably the MAP was inoperable and the engine defaulted to the OEM,s ECU with the "Emanage" pigy back?

If i do end up needing a Mapper do you know any who would travel to Lancashire, Preston, PR67JT. I ask this as i have never been able to locate one in the past that would get involved with my electronic set up.

Finally i would like to be added to your Member's friends list.

[Noz]

You can see it leaning out yes. But would be too late if something extreme were to happen.

The emanate ecu only kicks in when there is boosted. Rather than own a dedicated map of its own. Its a piggy back of the oem map. 

Its likely the failed turbo caused flow issues. Therefore caused over fueling due to its inability to supply air. At a guess.

Map it on a dyno. With fuel pressure read outs and knock sensors. This is serious stuff, adjusting a map in your passenger seat may save you coins but cost you an engine.

Add me to the list pal. No worries at all. I'll respond on my wall as see you've asked for help there also.

[herbiemercman]

Thanks for the reply Noz, my problem is finding a Mapper that will look at piggy back set ups, not sure why they avoid them, may be it's because they don't have the relavent software? may be you know?

Craig Attard, ( Rocket Dog), said the replacement turbo he is sending me, is made in Germany, it is a GT.70/68  T4. and has the exact same performance characteristics as my failed one, and a re- map should not be necessary .

My local turbo people, "Turbo Force" in Bamber Bridge, Nr Preston, said my turbo looked well made and the failure mode it had is quite common, as a tiny projectile at the 19,000 RPM damages the ceramic blades, so with my exhaust to turbo gasket having broken into bits, this was the culprit.

"Conceptua Performance" who supplied my cylinder head gasket kit and my AFR guage etc, will not sell the single layer embossed turbo gaskets as they disintegrate in a relatively short time, the gasket i have now purchased is a 4 layer stainless steel one. "Conceptua" will also not supply spooling jackets as they over tax the oil seals, they are a good company and are very helpfull and responsible.

[Noz]

They lack scope on sensors I think people avoid them for that reason. And they lack capability of newer systems which people prefer.

Craig should be able to check your tuning surely. If he's supplied the turbo.

Its upto you lad. I've given you my thoughts. Up to you if you think it's worth the risk.

[Style]

What's a spooling jacket?

I think the problem is what turbo you're replacing it with. If you were replacing a branded turbo that you knew the exact specs for, then you'd probably be fine to switch it with an identical replacement and just go again. But unless you can be sure that you're replacing your Chinese turbo with an identical one in terms of spec then it's worth getting it looked over.

Would I also not be right in saying you've made some changes since the car was last mapped anyway? IIrc the headgasket has been changed and the compression ratio dropped. If it hasn't been mapped since the headgasket change then it's an even bigger reason to get it looked at again.

[herbiemercman]

21 hours ago, Style said:

What's a spooling jacket?

I think the problem is what turbo you're replacing it with. If you were replacing a branded turbo that you knew the exact specs for, then you'd probably be fine to switch it with an identical replacement and just go again. But unless you can be sure that you're replacing your Chinese turbo with an identical one in terms of spec then it's worth getting it looked over.

Would I also not be right in saying you've made some changes since the car was last mapped anyway? IIrc the headgasket has been changed and the compression ratio dropped. If it hasn't been mapped since the headgasket change then it's an even bigger reason to get it looked at again.

Thanks Style i agree with your opinion and i am sure Noz would. I will ask Craig if he knows any Mappers that would travel? most of his contacts are  near Cardiff where he is located, the guy that mapped my car unfortunately passed away last year.

[Noz]

9 hours ago, herbiemercman said:

Thanks Style i agree with your opinion and i am sure Noz would. I will ask Craig if he knows any Mappers that would travel? most of his contacts are  near Cardiff where he is located, the guy that mapped my car unfortunately passed away last year.

Just travel yourself. Get the car delivered. You will pay more for a mappers time than having it delivered. 

If they're any good of course. Cheap local ecu map downlowners might do it. But why risk it.

Just get car transported lad. Making it harder for yourself otherwise.