rg500 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Does anyone know if our supras will be able to run on this new e10 fuel as the government is pushing fo zero emissions and are planning to shelve unleaded in 5 years time, I hope we will as it will be the death of old cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burna Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Why would you want to? You use Super Unleaded anyway I bet, so just keep using Super. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Lots of noise around the E10 fuel at the moment. Some say caution needs to be taken, ACEA have even produced a document that lists suitable, and not suitable vehicles. Then... There are others who say it is a non issue. After all the USA have been using E10 since 2012 on all vehicles and they are having no problems. Have a read here https://www.introducinge10petrol.co.uk/introducing-e10-petrol Cheers, Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 I doubt we'll have to worry about fuel in our life time. With demand being less, the price will either drop due to storage or go up due to covering costs. I don't think things will change for a long long time (regarding availability). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 There is plenty of noise around E10 issues with carburettor cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 14 hours ago, rider said: There is plenty of noise around E10 issues with carburettor cars. Interesting, what issues have been reported? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 This is from ACEA, they have put together a list of compatible and incompatible vehicles. Few gaps in it though. https://www.acea.be/uploads/publications/ACEA_E10_compatibility.pdf Cheers, Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Just bumping this as I saw an advert about this today. I doubt it will make a difference to us, as super unleaded becomes more popular we might even see a price drop on it. For other cars, it will be the same situation when leaded fuel was banned, cars will just be converted to run on E10. Someone, somewhere will find a way to make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 (edited) On 2/26/2021 at 10:49 AM, oilman said: Interesting, what issues have been reported? There have been reports and videos on in particular USA classic cars that use steel tanks, brake and fuel lines having corrosion issues with E10 fuels. Its also reported that you should 'expect' phase separation if the fuel is stored (in a tank) for more than 100 days with a water/ethanol phase sitting at the bottom of carb float champers or fuel tanks. So unless your car is used regularly and tank filled regularly E10 has issues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKrdOMTaaTQ Edited June 25, 2021 by rider (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Its enough to make you want to cry. It looks like E10 fuel stabalis(z)ers might be the answer for cars that get placed on SORN over winter months, the other recommendation with E10 is either to drain or completely fill your fuel tank if the vehicle is to be stored for any period. Also to drain the fuel bowls in carburettors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvS_D4_lF5U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 (edited) Interesting Land Rover: E10 petrol is cleared for use in all Land Rover vehicles with petrol engines starting from model year 1996. My Range has basically a P38 4.6 Gems engine in it which was in the P38 in 1994 and continued to I think 1999 when it got the Thor unit so does that make my engine ok to use E10 in ? Edited June 26, 2021 by Dnk (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m12aak Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Dnk said: Interesting Land Rover: E10 petrol is cleared for use in all Land Rover vehicles with petrol engines starting from model year 1996. My Range has basically a P38 4.6 Gems engine it which was in the P38 in 1994 and continued to i think 1999 when it got the Thor unit so does that make my engine ok to use E10 in ? From the sounds of it your engine will likely be fine then as it probably was only a change in materials used in the fuel system between 1995-96 as the engine ran to 1999, but it also depends how different a 1996+ P38's fuel delivery system is from your Classic in terms of materials. I must confess that I haven't read through your build thread, so apologies if the system is different from stock and is not a concern! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxluc Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Over here, E10 is mixed with 90% 95 octan. That gives a global octan of 96.5.Very few people use it.E5 is a mix of ethanol and 95% 98 octan; so global octan is a tad over 98 octan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, m12aak said: From the sounds of it your engine will likely be fine then as it probably was only a change in materials used in the fuel system between 1995-96 as the engine ran to 1999, but it also depends how different a 1996+ P38's fuel delivery system is from your Classic in terms of materials. I must confess that I haven't read through your build thread, so apologies if the system is different from stock and is not a concern! I think I will contact the local restoration shop and the engine builder, if there's any doubt I'll be swapping to Super Edited June 26, 2021 by Dnk (see edit history) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Yeah as Burna has said, I don't think us Supra owners need to worry as we should be running V-Power/Momentum anyway and that will remain unchanged. E10 sounds like more hassle than it's worth for cars older than 2012 (I think it was they said). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Style said: Yeah as Burna has said, I don't think us Supra owners need to worry as we should be running V-Power/Momentum anyway and that will remain unchanged. E10 sounds like more hassle than it's worth for cars older than 2012 (I think it was they said). Japanese Premium fuel was 95RON back in the 90's (96 today) with regular 89RON. All Japanese car engines were designed in the 90's to run on 89 or 95 RON, the higher grade in Europe equivalency is standard grade petrol. Japan has never had the 98 UK Premium or 100 old 5 Star RON fuels in its domestic market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Style said: Yeah as Burna has said, I don't think us Supra owners need to worry as we should be running V-Power/Momentum anyway and that will remain unchanged. E10 sounds like more hassle than it's worth for cars older than 2012 (I think it was they said). Only for 4 more years though, until super unleaded also becomes E10. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 On 6/25/2021 at 12:19 PM, rider said: There have been reports and videos on in particular USA classic cars that use steel tanks, brake and fuel lines having corrosion issues with E10 fuels. Its also reported that you should 'expect' phase separation if the fuel is stored (in a tank) for more than 100 days with a water/ethanol phase sitting at the bottom of carb float champers or fuel tanks. So unless your car is used regularly and tank filled regularly E10 has issues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKrdOMTaaTQ Sounds like the next wave of innovation for those with the know how. There are going to be thousands of classic car owners needing a cost effective solution, whether that's fuel additives or replacement parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burna Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 2 hours ago, rider said: Japanese Premium fuel was 95RON back in the 90's (96 today) with regular 89RON. All Japanese car engines were designed in the 90's to run on 89 or 95 RON, the higher grade in Europe equivalency is standard grade petrol. Japan has never had the 98 UK Premium or 100 old 5 Star RON fuels in its domestic market. Yes, but most owners are BPU, so I wouldn't advise using anything but premium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Tyson said: Sounds like the next wave of innovation for those with the know how. There are going to be thousands of classic car owners needing a cost effective solution, whether that's fuel additives or replacement parts. There will be more availability on additives you put in the tank containing corrosion inhibitor phosphates and ethanol stabilizers which will likely be alkanes or higher carbon alcohols. Phase separation and steel corrosion will be easy to address, aluminium and brass corrosion and rubber degradation somewhat harder. It's easy to run the fuel out on carburettor cars, so owners should just run the carbs dry before parking up and have a full tank of fuel with some ethanol fuel stabiliser additive to minimise tank breathing. With hoses we may well see similar to flexible A/C lines the wider introduction of plastic inner lined rubber tubing. Its not like the technologies aren't there, it'll just need sufficient market demand to make it happen. Or Andy Ven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike2JZ Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 They need to hurry up and bring e85 already, e10 is booooring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdavies Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 30 minutes ago, Mike2JZ said: They need to hurry up and bring e85 already, e10 is booooring. At least with E10 you are a little bit closer to mixing your own E85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Here is a video on additive comparison for water in fuel. I think the Miller Genuine Draught would probably be the best, I used to drink that stuff when I lived in the US. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpvaJmVcf0k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 What would be a great compromise is if anything pre 2000 could still get 95 from the pumps with a dyed fuel, so the same principles as red diesel for farmers. Police would love that as I am sure it would be a fruitful revenue stream for them. However it will never happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Interesting reading If i'm reading it right keeping the tank filled up will reduce phase separation http://ethanolrfa.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Evaluation-of-Water-Uptake-by-Ethanol-RFA-09-16.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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