What the heck is this?

[Fulcrum2000]

So should this be plug be plugged into anything under my Supe bonnet? Nothings ever been taken out whilst I owned it and nothing seems to not function but it certainly looks very purposeful

 

[Mike2JZ]

Cruise control module plug. Most Supra's without it have that bit dangling in the engine bay, nothing to worry about

[Fulcrum2000]

Cruise control module plug. Most Supra's without it have that bit dangling in the engine bay, nothing to worry about

 

Phew thanks for that

[Swampy442]

I'd be far more concerned with that manual boost controller!

[Fulcrum2000]

I'd be far more concerned with that manual boost controller!

 

 

Dont worry its plumbed in perfectly and theres's an EBC on it too, I'm slowly creeping it up in tiny increments to 1.15 then I am going to lock it down hopefully forever. Then I will be on here looking for new panels for my boot, all of which seem to have broken under the last owners hamfistedness.

[Noz]

I'd be far more concerned with that manual boost controller!

 

I'm with you on that. Lol..

[Scooter]

What's the concern with the manual boost controller? I keep hearing these sort of veiled "they're crap/risky" etc comments but is it true or is there some sort of boost controller snobbery going on?

 

I sort of swayed Fulcrum to have a simple restrictor ring (for ultimate boost capping) and then a manual controller for the first turbo (although lookng at that pic i'm not sure it's plumber in exactly look like mine)

[Fulcrum2000]

I agree Scooter I know they can be abused and hurt cars but when they're not in the hands of the young and impetuous I'm not really sure why they would be any more or less harmful to a car then an EBC - in fact I have an EBC too and they're acting in tandem perfectly but when we installed the Gizzmo the first time it came up as bar even when at idle and rather than the install it was the EBC itself that turned out to be faulty, so in my case EBCs have been shown to be a tad less reliable than manuals but I doff my cap to everyone on here who has far more knowledge. I've had manual ones on 4 or 5 cars and never had any issues ever though but if anything untoward happens I will post it on here so we can all have a good finger pointing session I promise!

[Gpro]

If you set your manual boost controller to 1.1 bar now, on a cold night you will exceed 1.1 bar. Also the same goes for being in a high gear, you will never be able to hit 1.1 bar in all conditions.

[Noz]

Thats a really, really long sentence.

 

You shouldn't have both. You have a pressure regulator valve to regulate pressure. You dont need two though.

 

Its a finite pressure. A little screw is just considered a non calibrated method of trying to control the pressure. You cant quantify a half turn to add however many PSI.

[Fulcrum2000]

Yes I agree this is why I am doing a very gradual series of runs, each day I need to go on post runs for my business so I increase it by one click then when the car is warmed up I do a run and then increase it by one click until I will eventually hit 1.1-1.15 and as we can go to 1.2 safely I will check in winter if it is still under that at all times and if not click it down. I'm being super careful, I've done ten runs in ten days and I'm still only at 1.08 now on WOT and when I do reach it it has a locking mechanism for safety too. I also had my turbos inspected before this and they are healthy too.

 

Sorry. About. The. Long. Sentence.

[Burna]

Yes I agree this is why I am doing a very gradual series of runs, each day I need to go on post runs for my business so I increase it by one click then when the car is warmed up I do a run and then increase it by one click until I will eventually hit 1.1-1.15 and as we can go to 1.2 safely I will check in winter if it is still under that at all times and if not click it down. I'm being super careful, I've done ten runs in ten days and I'm still only at 1.08 now on WOT and when I do reach it it has a locking mechanism for safety too. I also had my turbos inspected before this and they are healthy too.

 

Sorry. About. The. Long. Sentence.

 

It really doesn't work that way at all, and whoever is advising you to do these things and is fitting them, you need to stop listening to them. So many different driving conditions will effect the boost you will achieve with a manual boost controller, the same as just relying on a restricting ring to cap the boost level. It can be done, but it will won't achieve it's full potential.

 

What you need to do is remove the bleed valve, install the EBC correctly, set it up correctly, and let the EBC maintain the correct boost level. It really is that simple and nothing more to it. I suggest you take your car to a Supra specialist, they will have everything setup and running in a very short amount of time.

[Fulcrum2000]

I agree it would be nice to get it seen to be a Supra specialist but after you try and find one (I live in Lincolnshire) it seems they are about as common as fans of Gary Glitter. And if I do find one within 100 miles of me they either offer to do it when they can and never ring back or refer me to somebody else who then turns me down anyway. Supras are cars very few mechanics want to work on now, I'm not sure when everyone on here last tried to follow this advice and find one but I have been living the reality of this for 3 and a half years and been through 9 or 10 mechanics, 3 tuning companies and Fennsport, all of which have failed ultimately or refused to work on them beyond a point. I've been trying to get 1.2bar BPU and just have the rider of removing the harsh kick between turbos for so long now its crazy. I appreciate everyone's advice on here dont get me wrong but my strength is in business, not engineering so I have to be led by those who know and it has led me to this path. If anyone in my area wants to help I am happy to pay them.

[Scooter]

I am going to dip out of this, I'm happy with my setup and it's safe but I agree not optimal (depending on your definition of optimal)

 

But you need to be happy with the setup, and either understand the implications yourself or trust the tuner with the slightly more complex boost controller setup.

 

I'm happy seeing 1.15bar and then a tad more in the winter, as I have an audible alarm (and it registers peak boost) from the old boost controller that was all over the place when I got the car. I'm also happy tweaking the first turbo pipework with a manual controller (not adjusted in forever now it's set) to tweak that up a bit from the stock 0.7. It doesn't fluctuate the exhaust is not restricted anymore than is has to be (which is not the case with a variable boost controller setup) and it just works.

 

I'm fully comfortable with it and there is no way/chance of me turning up anything to go 1.2/1.25 if I got tempted to, so for me that's a good thing. The boost controller I have when it was originally setup had so many 'gain' settings and modes like a "scramble" mode which frankly sounded risky when I read up on it.

[Scooter]

https://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?343710-Witch-EBC-is-the-best-if-I-would-also-boost-the-nr1(-)-turbo&highlight=first+turbo

 

 

 

Page 4 / posts 40 on for the t piece section that increases the 1st turbo boost....

 

https://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?4620-All-top-end-on-a-tuned-uk-spec/page5

Edited July 6, 2020 by Scooter (see edit history)

[Noz]

If your engine blows up. You won't worry about the distance needed to find a supra specialist mate.

 

Whifbitz have always pulled through for me and recently looked after people who ive sent there. I know others just take forever to quote or ignore you completely.

 

You own a supra. A proper boost setup is pennies in comparison. Its not like we are talking a cheap car.

 

Honestly best thing you can do is sort that out man.

 

Good luck.

[Scooter]

I would really like to understand the negativity.

 

Restrictor ring limits overall boost in BPU's correct?

Without one you can over boost (and blow your turbo's on one run if you're unlucky), correct?

So unless you have a UK car you'll have a restrictor ring in at BPU, correct?

So a 1.2 restrictor ring will limit boost to that plus/minus winter/denser air effects, correct?

So a boost controller on a car with such a restrictor ring will not be able to lower boost and so is in effect useless (unless you want to stray above 1.2 bar)

Unless it's a complex controller that can alter the first turbo too, correct?

The linked t piece manual mod linked to adjusts the prespool to get the same result, correct?

Also a 1 bar restrictor ring car with a boost controller to take boost up to 1.1 and 1.2 settings will have higher EGT's due to the 1 bar restriction which is worse for the car/engine?

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative but I'm putting forward my understanding (and more than happy to be corrected on any of the above), and I simply don't see the whole engine blowing up thing as likely or even possible (anymore than any other bpu setup) due to a manual boost control set up in the above way and would be keen to know if I'm wrong and the way a turbo/engine could be damaged?

[Fulcrum2000]

I must admit I am of the same opinion, I am not mechanically minded but one thing which many people on here have told me ad infinitum is boost controllers cannot lower boost, only raise it. So an EBC is not able to govern the boost in any way as a ceiling if the wrong instructions are put into it or it in any way fails. So common sense tells me considering there's two posters on here which have had faulty EBCs if you have one of these it is technically possible to fail and overboost whereas a restrictor ring and locked out manual (mine locks out with a crank and a deep grub so immovable once set) simply cannot fail unless we were to go down the path of lines failing etc which could happen on any set up.

 

I'm the same as Scooter and am happy to be corrected but to me its science that simple pieces of steel and manual locked out valves are infinitely more reliable (but by definition less flexible) than controllers with electronic circuitry and more tech and moving parts that have potential to fail. Back in the 90s when I was young and stupid (as oppose to now where I'm older and stupid) the sides of the road werent littered with turbo cars on fire and teens hanging out of them groaning and we only had manuals then. And better music, and worse haircuts.

 

But just to reiterate as the OP, what I am doing is being done very safely and very slowly, and my car is probably the most monitored BPU on the road - it has for instand a separate boost gauge to all the rest of the setup so I can always see overall boost and if I exceed it, it also has a top of the range AFR gauge so I can always see the mix is within parameters, the EBC is perfectly measuring boost against the boost gauge and I am going to set it up so it is way within parameters and can only reach 1.15 just at the very limits of WOT giving me leeway, then when it gets cold I will check it again and bobs my proverbial relation hopefully.

 

But again, if I am doing anything wrong let me know, but if anyone answering could just look at the set up I have just described and comment only on that instead of just telling me manual boost controllers come out of satans rectum and I should be taking it 500 miles to Whiffbitz that would be so helpful as I appreciate that manual boost opinions aside, you are more knowledgeable than me in an engineering sense.

[Scooter]

Just to clarify re Burna's position he has a uk spec and they need a boost controller to up the boost in general (something to do with their wastegates I think) ie the boost won't rise when you decat and put on a cat back exhaust like the Jspecs do.

 

Fulcrum I think what you're doing is slightly different from me in that you have gone for a smaller restrictor ring and then are adjusting the overall boost with the manual controller (I don't know the correct plumbing for that) whereas I just kept slightly increasing the restrictor rings internal diameter, fitting and refitting until I got to the 1.15bar cap.

 

ie you are doing a little of this "Also a 1 bar restrictor ring car with a boost controller to take boost up to 1.1 and 1.2 settings will have higher EGT's due to the 1 bar restriction which is worse for the car/engine?"

 

 

What boost do you get below 3500rpm still the stock 0.7bar? Have you done a t piece mod (the only mod to the sequential pipework mine has?)

[Fulcrum2000]

Hi Scooter

 

My grand vision was to have two boost controllers one on each to fettle the interchange (manual on first, Gizzmo second) but the way I got the car back from the tuner has been a more sensible approach then the one I suggested I think, basically under 3500 the first turbo boost seems to be altered by altering the Gizzmo but only slightly but the actual boost read on the Gizzmo is combined boost in line with the standalone boost gauge. So when I alter the manual BC it affects the second turbo and the overall boost is creeping up to where I want it to be each tweek on that I perform. The boost on the first turbo doesnt seem to be affected at all by the manual controller. I assume the Gizzmo is only acting upon the first as even with large duty changes the boost only climbs tiny amounts which would ring true with the set up of the car, if it were acting upon the second more 'free' turbo the differences in duty would allow me to go above and beyond the 1.2 which it doesnt. In fact if the manual is at minimum the differences in overall boost between 10 duty and 90 duty is maybe 0.1 to 0.2bar which indicates its getting that from the first turbo

 

Long story short basically it seems its plumbed in such a way that I put a tweak on the Gizzmo the first turbo creeps up a little, I adjust the manual, the second turbo does or perhaps they both do slightly and the Gizzmo reads total pressure all the time. I've had both turbos fully checked over a couple of weeks back before I had this put in and they were fine too so thankfully the HKS I had to remove didnt do any harm.

[Scooter]

I still can't quite picture exactly how the Gizzmo (whatever that is!?) and the manual controller are plumber in, and to be honest I'm not going to be able to advise you on that other than say ultimate boost on mine is controlled purely by the restrictor ring which I prefer, then all other pipework is stock by the pinked t piece setup to creep up the 1st turbo boost.

 

It was my first BPU car, the controller wasn't working right and so I went back to basics, then added the T piece and have left it like that since, I absolutely can't claim to be any sort of guru but I like the setup now and believe it to be safe.

[Fulcrum2000]

Well as I say I'm no guru either but whatever the situation, as mine has a standalone boost gauge showing total boost and never goes above 1.15 then that is as safe as having any other method of BPU. And to be honest I spend more time looking at the boost gauge than the speedo (or often the road) and will do until I have had a good few miles on all weathers just in case. I have all the precautionary gauges installed unlike many so if something is amiss I would know unlike a lot of people who dont feel AFRs etc are necessary on BPU. I agree they objectively arent essential but they do show you what is happening more than not having one. When all this madness clears I will seek out a specialist and just get them to give it a check over too though for the belt and braces and if I did get any kind of overboost I would crank it down to 1bar until I could get another persons help. If there's anyone in the lincolnshire area that ever wants to earn a few quid checking it over let me know.

 

As to your car Scooter I think the proof's in the pudding mate, whatever we can all surmise, you set your car up in the way you describe and have driven it for a long period with no ill effects whatsoever so I think that is as good a rubber stamp of a safe set up as anything else.

[Scooter]

Yeah for me I think 1.15 is a safe upper limit and gives nice power and I don't push the 1st turbo pressure as fueling around the transition can lean off from what I've read (and I don't have any AFR gauge to have even a chance of seeing that).

 

I have never messed with any of my other unmodified TT's and so when I got this one I just wanted to get it working smoothly. If you want multiple options or are after squeezing every last BHP out of it then I accept a decent setup of controllers, gauges etc is needed. The closer you reach the boost pressure/fuel/power envelopes the more risky thing become. In my opinion once you go past 1 bar and fitting an FCD then you need to tread very carefully, as you are now doing.

[Burna]

I think to be honest everyone has given up replying, as no matter what wisdom or experience is shared, it just gets ignored.

 

I'll summaries my own personal opinion on how I would do it:

 

On a J-spec you fit a 1 bar restrictor ring, you drive the car and you will boost around 1 bar, sometimes higher in the winter, sometimes lower in the summer.

 

To go further, and raise the boost, you could fit a bleed valve (manual boost controller), but be aware that like the restrictor ring you will sometime boost higher or lower due to many factors, like engine loading, weather conditions etc... etc... and you will forever be chasing your tail if you always want to achieve the exact same boost figure, which is impossible.

 

The next step you can take it is to fit an EBC (electronic boost controller) You can then raise the boost pressure to whatever value you wish. The EBC will achieve and hold that boost pressure no matter what external factors are at play. This is the most sensible and reliable option if you wan't to raise boost.

 

Saying an EBC or the make and model of the EBC is to blame or rubbish, when in fact it's down to a bad install due to lack of knowledge or understanding, and a failed setup up of the EBC due to a lack of knowledge or understanding, shows a real lack of understanding of what people have been trying to put across, and hence why people have recommended the car be taken to a trusted Supra specialist who actually know what they are doing.

[The Raven]

Burna is right.

 

Just take it to someone