Style Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I've always noticed that not only did my car sit about half an inch higher on the drivers side with stock suspension, but the wheels also sit differently in the arches. The passenger side wheel sits nice and flush in the arch but the drivers side is tucked in a noticeable amount. I'll get some pictures later today to show what I mean. I have since replaced literally everything and it still sits the same. My coilovers are adjusted to level out the height difference now, but the 'offset' difference is still there. Different sets of wheels confirm it's not them and a subframe refresh with new parts rules out any bent arms etc. as well. It seems as though the subframe might mount slightly off center or something. The rear looks spot on though. The car has a clean history so I've been terrified that it maybe suffered a shunt whilst over in Japan, but after some googling I have noticed that it seems to be an inherint problem with a lot of Supras in the US. A lot of other people have noticed the same on their cars over there. https://www.supraforums.com/threads/need-help-passenger-side-wheels-sit-sunken-in-and-driver-side-pokes.780866/ https://www.supraforums.com/threads/wheels-stick-out-differently.551627/ Anyone else noticed it on theirs? I guess it's something I'll just have to put up with. I don't know how I feel about putting a spacer on one side of the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunkmeyer Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 [emoji15] no words that are helpful. Good luck with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2 MSW Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Id personally inspect the frame rails and look for any signs of damage. I don't think its possible to mount the front subframe off centre. Are you sure its not the arch itself as they can be moved in at the top but id be amazed if you can get that much out of the limited adjustment you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 Id personally inspect the frame rails and look for any signs of damage. I don't think its possible to mount the front subframe off centre. Are you sure its not the arch itself as they can be moved in at the top but id be amazed if you can get that much out of the limited adjustment you have. Frame rails look to be straight and no signs of damage at all. I'll have a look at the wings, can maybe adjust them slightly but looked to sit flush with the panels around them from memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Some will say. Its because it's an NA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) It has been a while since I tinkered with that part of my Supra, yet I remember that the front sub-frames have some 'slack' in their locating bolt-holes. Try loosening the bolts and repositioning? Edited June 1, 2020 by David P (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudsey Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 There is castor adjustment on the front wheels, from memory. Perhaps the alignment set up is off? I’d get the tape measure out, and check from side to side too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 Some will say. Its because it's an NA Any excuse to bash the NA's It has been a while since I tinkered with that part of my Supra, yet I remember that the front sub-frames have some 'slack' in their locating bolt-holes. Try loosening the bolts and repositioning? Worth a shot I'd always thought there was little to no movement with subframe mounts but that's good to know. There is castor adjustment on the front wheels, from memory. Perhaps the alignment set up is off? I’d get the tape measure out, and check from side to side too. I've had a full geo setup when I had the underside done so it might be that some components have settled over time I guess. Maybe worth seeing about an alignment check somewhere. I think pics will help so will get some this afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan8 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 On a totally different note looking at yours a almost certain that I noticed I don’t have a diff rubber either side just one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPG Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 On a totally different note looking at yours a almost certain that I noticed I don’t have a diff rubber either side just one [ATTACH=CONFIG]235941[/ATTACH] If you have NA-5-Speed then you should only have diff mounts on the one side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 On a totally different note looking at yours a almost certain that I noticed I don’t have a diff rubber either side just one [ATTACH=CONFIG]235941[/ATTACH] N/A's only ever had one, T.T's have two from birth to hold the 115 ftlb more torque and anyone with a brain that works correctly will add this extra one to their N/A-T conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan8 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I never knew this thats good to know thanks David :thumbs: I will add this to my list of changes for my conversion I only notice as I started stripping everything back to remove sub frame for painting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 Yeah I had 1 in there originally too but added the second one in so you're all good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Sadly i've seen plenty of crash damaged cars that weren't recorded so that means very little to be honest. When everything was changed was the car allowed to settle before torquing up all the bolts etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) I never knew this thats good to know thanks David :thumbs: I will add this to my list of changes for my conversion I only notice as I started stripping everything back to remove sub frame for painting Here you go... http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/group.php?discussionid=215&do=discuss Please note that the given link won't work with Crapatalk. Edited June 1, 2020 by David P (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan8 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Thanks lads and cheers for the link David that’s fantastic mate and will help me out no end I picked up a nice bit of info from Styles thread hopefully you get to the route of your problem soon mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 So I nipped out and got some pics which I have kind of cropped together for comparison. It's much easier to notice a difference when you take a few steps back and eye ball it from there, but it doesn't show up as well with pics that far away with the wheels, tyres and wheel wells all being the same colour. In fairness, it doesn't look that bad at all in these pics but I've come this far, so might as well keep the story going in case it's of use to anyone else down the line The bottom of the wheels/tyres look like they sit about the same relative to the front bumper. It might just be that the drivers side needs a bit of camber taken out to square the wheel a bit more at the top...which may bring the bottom in a bit though. Tyre wear is perfectly even as it is, but may just be the new components relaxing a little over time as Dnk has kinda pointed towards. Maybe a good alignment check is the best place to start. Still stumped on the stock suspension sitting lower on one side though, maybe that was just a gubbed shock. Please excuse the dirty car, had just been out for a blast and it has since been washed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2 MSW Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 In those photos it doesn't look anywhere near as bad. but still looks like a good 1/4 -1/2 inch difference. Really don't think your going to get that out of movement in the subframe as I don't recall there being that much movement but its worth a check. I can see why your annoyed with that one as id be the same with my own car, once you see it you can't unsee it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 That's not what i'm saying to be honest. When fitting new arms etc you need to have the cars weight sat on them when they are tightened. Have you checked these dimensions in the attached picture If it were mine i'd be off to see Chris at Center Gravity and the first thing i'd do is see what the geometry is now before touching anything. You can't just change the camber on a wheel to make it look right in the wheel arch, that's a def no no, unless of course its not in tolerance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 In those photos it doesn't look anywhere near as bad. but still looks like a good 1/4 -1/2 inch difference. Really don't think your going to get that out of movement in the subframe as I don't recall there being that much movement but its worth a check. I can see why your annoyed with that one as id be the same with my own car, once you see it you can't unsee it Yeah it's quite annoying mate, even such a small difference One of the guys in the SF threads had his subframe off to check reported back on there being zero movement in the front, he toyed with slotting/notching it himself to make the difference up I think but decided against it. Some people run a spacer on one side but I think that would make things worse for me. I might take a measuring tape to my wheels as well to double check they're identical. That's not what i'm saying to be honest. When fitting new arms etc you need to have the cars weight sat on them when they are tightened. Have you checked these dimensions in the attached picture If it were mine i'd be off to see Chris at Center Gravity and the first thing i'd do is see what the geometry is now before touching anything. You can't just change the camber on a wheel to make it look right in the wheel arch, that's a def no no, unless of course its not in tolerance See what you mean now, thanks. Does make sense to load up the components before setting it into place. Haven't seen that pic before so I'll have a look Although the values in the pic won't be relevant with a lowered car on 18's I guess. I don't mean adjusting any of this myself, I was leaning more towards the geometry being out one way or another. I'd have it looked at by a professional like Chris or anyone in my area that's got the equipment to do it properly. It'll probably need to go up in the air, have everything loosened off, dropped onto a pit or ramp and torqued back up again before sorting the alignment and height out. I'm just hoping it's something like stacked tolerances that can be adjusted out at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Sure the wings never been off? Using a panel may not be the best datum. Measure off another location point. To ensure your comparing wheel position and not measuring a variable. Use a laser based off the door perhaps. The rear arch or soomething other than the wing. Not to say those are also possibilities to have being removed also. Just a second opinion / reference point might help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 When we did race cars we would have it on a flat set up patch then set the chassis to the patch then set up the suspension back to the chassis You can do a bit of maths to get the ride height figures to allow for your set up. Once you have your new figures you can check to see if the cars sitting as it should be I'd want to check it as it is now, be very interesting to see what the geo readings are before you do any adjustment Chris isn't cheap but he's the man i'd be speaking too to get to the bottom of this problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 What does the car drive like ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 Sure the wings never been off? Using a panel may not be the best datum. Measure off another location point. To ensure your comparing wheel position and not measuring a variable. Use a laser based off the door perhaps. The rear arch or soomething other than the wing. Not to say those are also possibilities to have being removed also. Just a second opinion / reference point might help you. Not as far as I'm aware. All the panel gaps and lines are perfect but the arches have been rolled up front when the car was resprayed. Whether that's been enough to push the wing out, I'm not sure. So yeah, worth checking against something else. When we did race cars we would have it on a flat set up patch then set the chassis to the patch then set up the suspension back to the chassis You can do a bit of maths to get the ride height figures to allow for your set up. Once you have your new figures you can check to see if the cars sitting as it should be I'd want to check it as it is now, be very interesting to see what the geo readings are before you do any adjustment Chris isn't cheap but he's the man i'd be speaking too to get to the bottom of this problem Cool, thanks Dnk. I've still got the alignment sheet from when it was done last so I'll see if I can get a similar printout before adjusting anything for comparison. What does the car drive like ? Straight as an arrow with even tyre wear on all 4. With it being wide CCW's, it does tramline a bit like they all do but that's it. When the back end steps out in a straight line, the rear goes slightly to the right every single time which I've heard is also normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKIV_Danny Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 can just tell from my personal experience from 10 years back when I imported my first Supra from US. It was an clean title AT Targa Turbo 202/tan interior on 17" genuine wheels. When the car arrived in EU I didn't realise that alignment problem. Then I bought a set of staggered 18" BBS Style wheels 8.5 ET35 front, 9.5 ET35 in back. Mounted for the first time an had exactly the same problem. One side was almost straight to the fender and other side the wheel was about 2cm inside the fender. Same for front and back. However, I lived with it and sold the car. after few years. The new owner stripped down the whole car for a rebuild and also tried to solve this problem. Don't know exactly what he has done, but in the end he wasn't able to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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