Fulcrum2000 Posted May 6, 2020 Author Share Posted May 6, 2020 Any help would be gratefully received Mike. In the current climate can I pay you back in stockpiled loo rolls and hand wash..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burna Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Your mechanic hasn't got a clue by the looks and sounds of it. The HKS EVC 6 is the best boost controller to control the sequential setup, there's even a large discussion thread on here on exactly how to plumb it in. I've used the HKS EVC 5, and now 6 for many years, and when plumbed in correctly they work perfectly. Once you've plumbed it in correctly, give it a full reset, and start again and DON'T skip or not finish any of the setups questions it asks you. I made that mistake a while back and took me awhile to figure it out lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burna Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Here you go, all the info you need is in this thread: http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?338583-EVC-6-IR-2-4-Installation&highlight=controller In fact, you were already advised in another thread you started to take the details from the above thread to your mechanic so he would know how to correctly install it :/ See here: http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?347725-Best-settings-for-HKS-EVC-on-JSpec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Well at least it's easy to trace the new lines, although I see at the back (pics 1 & 2) the loom is in an odd place. Options are you follow Burna's link. Or you go stock for a reset then check it's all generally ok, then stick or go with the link info and keep the controller. Where you are now it's potentially 'just' disconnecting and reconnecting hoses mechanics wise, you may need some bungs/caps to cap things off etc but you can use bolts etc in the short term for testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 A good link with pics here http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?35926-The-sequential-system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulcrum2000 Posted May 6, 2020 Author Share Posted May 6, 2020 Your mechanic hasn't got a clue by the looks and sounds of it. The HKS EVC 6 is the best boost controller to control the sequential setup, there's even a large discussion thread on here on exactly how to plumb it in. I've used the HKS EVC 5, and now 6 for many years, and when plumbed in correctly they work perfectly. Once you've plumbed it in correctly, give it a full reset, and start again and DON'T skip or not finish any of the setups questions it asks you. I made that mistake a while back and took me awhile to figure it out lol Yes I did indeed take this info to the mechanic who promptly followed it and it all went wrong, he then rang Tom Hudson at Fensport and they spent nearly three hours on video calls tweaking it and ended up with what I was left with, overboosting even though the head unit was insisting it wasnt and not giving off any alarm. Burna can you confirm from my pics that the lines are all correct for an HKS? If you can do that then i guess its the head unit. I can alter the boost, so lets say I wanted to drop the max I can put it down to 15 and it will come down to near safe levels but why there is such a disparity between what the head unit is detecting and the car is generating is extremely confusing? But if you can confirm the lines are correct I will be getting closer. Everyone else I talk to is constantly telling me the HKS is not the best and if I switch it out all my problems will be solved, but if at least I know the lines are correct I can have a look myself until next week. I've ordered a small bleed valve and a the latest Gizzmo V4 BC to replace it next week anyway but I dont like being beaten. I dont mind spending a little cash to get it going whilst I cant use it anyway much due to the lockdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burna Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Yes I did indeed take this info to the mechanic who promptly followed it and it all went wrong, he then rang Tom Hudson at Fensport and they spent nearly three hours on video calls tweaking it and ended up with what I was left with, overboosting even though the head unit was insisting it wasnt and not giving off any alarm. Burna can you confirm from my pics that the lines are all correct for an HKS? If you can do that then i guess its the head unit. I can alter the boost, so lets say I wanted to drop the max I can put it down to 15 and it will come down to near safe levels but why there is such a disparity between what the head unit is detecting and the car is generating is extremely confusing? But if you can confirm the lines are correct I will be getting closer. Everyone else I talk to is constantly telling me the HKS is not the best and if I switch it out all my problems will be solved, but if at least I know the lines are correct I can have a look myself until next week. I've ordered a small bleed valve and a the latest Gizzmo V4 BC to replace it next week anyway but I dont like being beaten. I dont mind spending a little cash to get it going whilst I cant use it anyway much due to the lockdown. Whoever is telling you that the HKS is not the best and to switch it out, has no idea what they are talking about, and has no idea how to properly install it. It doesn't install the same as the usual EBC's, and that's why people get frustrated and blame the product. I would suggest you start a fresh, put everything back to stock, and then follow the instructions in the thread I linked for you, and plumb it in correctly. Then you MUST do a reset of the controller, and set up all the setting in one hit. I know it can be frustrating, and I went through exactly what you are going through, but it is easy once you've done it the first time mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulcrum2000 Posted May 6, 2020 Author Share Posted May 6, 2020 Whoever is telling you that the HKS is not the best and to switch it out, has no idea what they are talking about, and has no idea how to properly install it. It doesn't install the same as the usual EBC's, and that's why people get frustrated and blame the product. I would suggest you start a fresh, put everything back to stock, and then follow the instructions in the thread I linked for you, and plumb it in correctly. Then you MUST do a reset of the controller, and set up all the setting in one hit. I know it can be frustrating, and I went through exactly what you are going through, but it is easy once you've done it the first time mate Fair dos, I'll give it a go and if it doesnt work switch to the Gizzmo, thanks for all your help Burna, Scooter Mike and everyone, its so nice of you all. The toilet rolls and hand wash are on me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai 20V Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Whoever is telling you that the HKS is not the best and to switch it out, has no idea what they are talking about, and has no idea how to properly install it. It doesn't install the same as the usual EBC's, and that's why people get frustrated and blame the product. I would suggest you start a fresh, put everything back to stock, and then follow the instructions in the thread I linked for you, and plumb it in correctly. Then you MUST do a reset of the controller, and set up all the setting in one hit. I know it can be frustrating, and I went through exactly what you are going through, but it is easy once you've done it the first time mate Exactly that.. I bought an EVC6, installed it myself by using the forum resources & help from members on here, tuned it myself, can ran for 7years without any issues from the HKS. I had the usual plumbing issues with the stock vac hoses, once resolved the car was flawless. This was my first turbo car, first time ever fitting an EBC. It took time, as Burna says, you need patience. It is definitely one of the best EBC's. Manual controllers are dangerous. One thing that did help was installing the EVC writer, it is a laptop interface, allowed much easier & more indepth tuning. Check my final dyno figures, this was done with the EVC in service, did not touch the settings at all. Car used to make 1bar in 1st, 2nd, and 1.2bar from there. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?322414-My-BPU-TT6-Dyno-run-Round-4-on-Page-4/page4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Can people explain why manual controllers are dangerous, do you mean if they are misused or just inherently dangerous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulcrum2000 Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 Can people explain why manual controllers are dangerous, do you mean if they are misused or just inherently dangerous? I assume everyone means they allow morons like me to overboost a car easily without forethought or ability and to be frank in my youth it is exactly what I would have done so maybe they have a point! I note some people eluded to Supra experts who can do more of this side, I thought in going to a mechanic who was friends with Tom Hudson and would be using his advice I had done this but I've clearly not managed to do this so can anyone post a few details of some of these recommended Supra specialists for us all? I've had 3 Supras (amongst 45 cars in my 23 years of driving) and always had the situation that you were lucky if anyone in my area wanted to work on them, it wasnt a case of people lining up to do it badly, so if there is a Specialist within 100 miles of me I would definitely investigate the option and like most I have two cars so can leave my Supe with someone for a period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulcrum2000 Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 Hi All Ok so as an update after puzzling over the HKS VI repeatedly with several mechanics and getting no further I decided I actually wanted to enjoy the car this year and decided lso to start again by buying a Gizzmo (which fit wonderfully in the dash by the way in a blanked out button near the TC) and a manual BC and having them plumbed in to the turbos separately. With that set up I should be able to slowly and safely dial it in to BPU but if anyone can just help with a little knowledge in doing this? Bear with the resident car idiot that I am please with these questions... Ok so when I drive along the turbos spool and as soon as it goes over 0 the Gizzmo kicks in with figures on the display, this is if I am right the first turbo it is detecting yes? If so it is puzzling me as I asked for the mechanic to install it to the second which is why I am asking - or is it correctly detecting the second turbo? Are both turbos the same size as I slowly crept up the duty to 90 (the max) and it doesnt reach above 1.05bar, and if so why is that? Its defo plumbed up properly as duty alterations are making subtle differences to the boost. Also if it is on the first turbo by mistake and I set it to hit .85bar how would I use the manual boost controller which must therefore be attached to the second one to get to 1.2bar, as in when is my boost gauge only reading the second turbo? Any help in small words would be appreciated and I can send a picture of the bay if you would like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulcrum2000 Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 Hi All Ok so as an update on a previous thread after puzzling over the HKS VI repeatedly with several mechanics and getting no further I decided I actually wanted to enjoy the car this year and decided lso to start again by buying a Gizzmo (which fit wonderfully in the dash by the way in a blanked out button near the TC) and a manual BC and having them plumbed in to the turbos separately. With that set up I should be able to slowly and safely dial it in to BPU but if anyone can just help with a little knowledge in doing this? Bear with the resident car idiot that I am please with these questions... Ok so when I drive along the turbos spool and as soon as it goes over 0 the Gizzmo kicks in with figures on the display, this is if I am right the first turbo it is detecting yes? If so it is puzzling me as I asked for the mechanic to install it to the second which is why I am asking - or is it correctly detecting the second turbo? Are both turbos the same size as I slowly crept up the duty to 90 (the max) and it doesnt reach above 1.05bar, and if so why is that? Its defo plumbed up properly as duty alterations are making subtle differences to the boost. Also if it is on the first turbo by mistake and I set it to hit .85bar how would I use the manual boost controller which must therefore be attached to the second one to get to 1.2bar, as in when is my boost gauge only reading the second turbo? Any help in small words would be appreciated and I can send a picture of the bay if you would like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdavies Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 There is guide on how to install boost controllers somewhere. Confusingly the turbo at the front of the engine is the second turbo and the first turbo is at the back of the engine. With a simple boost controller set up you control the boost the second turbo makes and leave the first turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulcrum2000 Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 But are both turbos the same power? Or capable of the same boost I should say? And assuming the first one is fine how do I know if the second one is hitting 1.2? Sorry for the noob questions I just want ot get it right after so long trying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike2JZ Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Your understanding of the sequential system is incorrect. This is the best documentation I've ever found for how the system works. Please read and try to apply to whatever you have done. https://web.archive.org/web/20051103225530/http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost/supra/turbo.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulcrum2000 Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 Your understanding of the sequential system is incorrect. This is the best documentation I've ever found for how the system works. Please read and try to apply to whatever you have done. https://web.archive.org/web/20051103225530/http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost/supra/turbo.htm Thanks so much people using this info I can confirm the Gizzmo is on the first turbo so I will reduce this one to .85 and then go for the second turbo which if this is right kicks in at 3-4k and I can go off the boost gauge to get somewhere between 1.15 and 1.2 thats so helpful of you! Just a final question and probably makes me sound really stupid but both turbos are separate components right so my understanding is it goes first turbo .8 second turbo 1.2 then both but when both are going does that mean it is running at 2bar total and is that fine? I know it probably sounds stupid as I know a BC cant reduce boost so everyone else must be running at these levels on BPU without issue but I just wanted to check Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike2JZ Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) Thanks so much people using this info I can confirm the Gizzmo is on the first turbo so I will reduce this one to .85 and then go for the second turbo which if this is right kicks in at 3-4k and I can go off the boost gauge to get somewhere between 1.15 and 1.2 thats so helpful of you! Just a final question and probably makes me sound really stupid but both turbos are separate components right so my understanding is it goes first turbo .8 second turbo 1.2 then both but when both are going does that mean it is running at 2bar total and is that fine? I know it probably sounds stupid as I know a BC cant reduce boost so everyone else must be running at these levels on BPU without issue but I just wanted to check The wastegate control valve controls the boost between one or both turbo's depending what RPM you are at. Hence why you dont need two boost controllers, just one connected to this valve. When you are online with both turbos, the 1.2 bar pressure you are trying to see will be generated and regulated between both turbo's. So you wont see 2 bar total. Edit: Make sure your Gizzmo pressure line is connected somewhere on your inlet manifold so you can get accurate boost readings. Edited June 25, 2020 by Mike2JZ (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulcrum2000 Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 The wastegate control valve controls the boost between one or both turbo's depending what RPM you are at. Hence why you dont need two boost controllers, just one connected to this valve. When you are online with both turbos, the 1.2 bar pressure you are trying to see will be generated and regulated between both turbo's. So you wont see 2 bar total. Edit: Make sure your Gizzmo pressure line is connected somewhere on your inlet manifold so you can get accurate boost readings. Mine are set up totally individually, the Gizzmo on the first and the Manual BC on the second (I wanted it the other way around but the mechanic has clearly done it in reverse because of the position of the turbos I guess), but the separate boost gauge if what you are saying is true of my car is showing joint boost (its been on the car since I bought it and when I put a decat and restrictor plate in it never went over .95 so this rings true). So with your wise advice I need to wind down the Gizzmo to never top .85 and then slowly increase the manual until at WOT and beyond 4k it hits 1.2bar yes? When I get time I will put another identical Gizzmo in on the second turbo to make it ultra adjustable and have a winter setting but for now just so I can have some driving at BPU this summer what I've just said is true yes all things being equal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike2JZ Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 You need one controller not two. I dont know how many times I can repeat myself on this. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulcrum2000 Posted June 26, 2020 Author Share Posted June 26, 2020 You need one controller not two. I dont know how many times I can repeat myself on this. Good luck. Hi Sorry I know what you are saying and I know traditionally BPU relies on one controller not two, but I ave gone down this path because I want to get the first turbo slightly up from normal in order to avoid the 'judder' of hitting turbo two which my last BPU supra had (I've had three including a MK III) and one of the members on here kindly offered the advice of having a small boost controller on the first to bring it up slightly to .8 or .85 basically makes the car feel the same as a normal twin in terms of smoothness but you still get the BPU power at the end of it, hence I thought it was worth the expense of two controllers to try and emulate this. I'll let everyone know how I get on with this after I've cranked the second one up to 1.2, its still at restrictor plate stock I think as yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 If you want the feeling of parallel turbos, set it up as TTC (guides on here for that). You still only need one boost controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 I think he's getting there just using the phrase "boost controller" might be confusing us...... Pictures would help, but I think he has the little bleed setup to increase the first turbo's boost pressure, which does smooth the transition at bpu and then a second one controlling overall boost, that in mine is simply the restrictor ring, which could be called a boost controller too!? BPU with 0.7bar and then 1.2 bar creates a big 'hit' but sub 3500 rpm it can feel a bit flat, 0.85 and 1.15bar acts like the stock sequential system on steroids, that's my experience at least. I've not touched the little bleed valve T piece or restrictor ring in years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Raven Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Hi Sorry I know what you are saying and I know traditionally BPU relies on one controller not two, but I ave gone down this path because I want to get the first turbo slightly up from normal in order to avoid the 'judder' of hitting turbo two which my last BPU supra had (I've had three including a MK III) and one of the members on here kindly offered the advice of having a small boost controller on the first to bring it up slightly to .8 or .85 basically makes the car feel the same as a normal twin in terms of smoothness but you still get the BPU power at the end of it, hence I thought it was worth the expense of two controllers to try and emulate this. I'll let everyone know how I get on with this after I've cranked the second one up to 1.2, its still at restrictor plate stock I think as yet The first turbo on full BPU should be around 0.7 to 0.8 anyway. I would really consider taking this to somewhere with a known history of working on supras before attempting to do what your talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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