Na-t conversions

[Chasz86]

Yeah I saw your thread in the projects section. You still running a Na-t

 

 

[Dan8]

Thanks I will try keron I want a polyurethane lips though does he stock these I will have to message him

 

I would love a areo top I loved my Mr2 Tbar but a aero top supra would be unreal. I always find that you get cracks along the seams with any blended kit though it’s just natural for the flex to tire it and stress cracks appear especially as a daily or getting used for spirited driving It looks the part though in the pictures

I had a peak at Nozs to am interested in seeing his manifold mod and it’s a proven NA-T build that has fantastic results from what I have seen

Need to get as much done before I go back to work as possible made a start stripping the head and cams and valves definitely getting my block decked as I think it would be wise since it overheated. Am still debating wether to use another NA engine I have which I removed from my crash damaged supra I have as a spares as it was auto as well and ran great or do you think it would not be a issue if I got it decked

I was surprised at how clean my cam carriers. Lobes. And buckets and bores were considering it had taken some abuse although was always maintained I haven’t measured any tolerances yet though

[Chasz86]

I'm using a donor engine, so I can build as much as poss before implanting, not sure so my head is an unknown, although the engine turned by hand for on start, looks pretty clean little carbon build up on pistons and at top of stroke. The head was already removed and has been off for over a year now. I was going to get a quote on rebuilding the head Inc skim, don't know whether new valves or changing cams is worth it if I'm not going big big power. It means not utilising the fact that the stock parts are capable otherwise could have used any doner if I was going swap out cams etc.

 

this is what evinx had to say on skimming. I dont know if there are any tell tale signs if the engine has over heated.

There used to be a thread on Supraforums - NA-T Bible, I think DavidP has a page on coil conversions using MKIII coils. And for what its worth IMO even if its in good shape, replace the 20+ year old Head Gasket as its likely to fail later down the line as they are aged. When changing the gasket if the engine never overheated or the gasekt failed you will be ok without having to skim the head or block, just a good clean up using the correct solvents.

I think I would like to leave rebuilding the head. Then go sick with the original engine when it's pulled out and I'm full of knowledge and experience. Eventually getting the original engine back for VIN no. to tally.

 

Or just do it once, do it right and forgot about VIN numbers besides this ones being fiddled with more than macualay culkin.

 

Funnily it was registered as an turbo when imported which had never been an issue when insuring i just say its not. Its pre-op finally freeing the turbo trapped in an NA body. I don't have a great history of the motor originally it was one owner since import in early 2000s, picked it up in Brighton don't think a member here. someone spent money putting the full jdl kit blended, full respray, two tone logo stitched seats. Oh jeez it had the gariest stick on dash veneer, more like venereal disease. A greeny gold metalic monstrosity, There is still a smallest bit of evidence because I never removed the veneer from glove box handle... a little postage stamp sized horror show.

 

 

 

 

[supra_aero]

I sold my aerotop. I need to change my user ID really. It never affected the bodykit I had on it if I m honest. Had it a good while.

 

I have a white one now hard top. As mentioned on other thread copying amuse supra for inspiration. White with white wheels. Same front lip as amuse supra. Will get white te37 wheels next year to go with toyota side skirts and spats. Orange indicators. 440 injectors going in with na-t. Same as amuse.

 

Aero was good fun. Prefer hard top though. You do notice the stiffer chassis with hard top.

 

Noz has helped me a lot with collecting parts and advice along with Dr jerkyl off here.

[Dan8]

Thanks for the info I had to change the gasket anyways as it had let go at number 6 combustion chamber to water jacket in the head and was pressurising the system and making the temps run high if you let it

I removed the head to just change the gasket then found my self doing a full NA-T while it was at this stage that’s what made me think of getting the block decked as well as the head skimmed as it previously blown and from your screen shot think I will do it better safe then sorry

And am not surprised you removed the veneer it sounds lovely I like the way you left a little bit of it behind to take you back to that first time you drove it home surrounded by it in all its glory

 

I didn’t know the supra would be that noticeable between the aero and hard top handling wise with all the over engineering the rest of the vehicle was blessed with from the factory but makes sense the roof is extra rigidity and sounds like a plan with your inspiration and styling mods I need to address my paint it needs a freshen and paint chipped along the OEM factory side skirts I will wait until my lips is fitted when I remove active lip and was debating trail rear but unsure as I like the factory skirts and spats but want a diffuser

[Style]

Sounds like you're off to a good start, all the best with it

 

I know it's quite an expense but I would reccomend a newer ECU if you can get one. They've come a long way since the Emanage first came out and you might even struggle to find someone to map it as they're few and far between now. Link or ECUMaster seem to be the best priced options out there nowadays. It will also make your coil pack conversion a hell of a lot cleaner and easier. You could fit a TT crank trigger gear while you're doing the oil pump and take crank signal from there instead of the distributor. Then you'd just need to run a cam sensor and wire smart coils directly to the ECU. I've just taken that route with mine and the distributor is completley gone.

[Dan8]

That’s a good shout fitting the TT crank gear now while it’s all out never thought to do that I will definitely be doing it now though as it’s the next stage really in terms of of progressing to more power and control and like you say future proofing tuning as it’s the common preferred method now thanks style I will be using stand alone management eventually it is just as and when funds permit but then I think if there will not be much opportunity to use the car as most things are cancelled now I could take my time and just build the engine and conversion and see where I stand finically at a later stage

 

What inlet are you using

 

Anything else anybody can recommend doing while it’s out and getting rebuilt that I may need to address later I removing the air con system I don’t use it anyways and will get the shorter belt and mod the power steering bracket

[Style]

I used the Goleby's kit who are an Aussie garage. Made a nice bracket to take cam signal off the exhaust gear which finished the whole conversion off nicely. FSMoto in the states do one as well but the exchange rate is far better to Aus dollars than it is to US. Now's the time to get building at your own pace so enjoy the process like you say If you're handy with some fabrication, you can probably make something yourself to be honest, will just need wiring in as well.

 

https://www.golebysparts.com.au/products/2jzge-trigger-kit-golebys-parts-distributor-delete?variant=15746035646573

 

Just the stock inlet for me mate, I've seen a few options out there but most have issues with TPS and ICV fitment. Plus the throttle bodies all look to be Chinese garbage so I'll try and save a little longer for a Hypertune or Plazaman. I could buy one of the cheaper ones and spend heaps modifiyng it all but I'll just end up at the same price as buying a good one I reckon.

 

Valve stem seals are good to do while it's apart if they're not on the list already. Gaskets all round, maybe a new water pump as well, belts, fluids, plugs and throw it all back together

[Noz]

Coolest way is cam gear. Cheapest way is the cam gear sensor from the dizzy.

[Dan8]

Wow thanks lads for the advice it’s reassuring having a forum full of knowledge to guide you it’s appreciated

I will have a good look into them style when I get some free time later and see what my best options are to suit my build and might get more bang for my buck buying it from over there then

To be honest I am happy to run the stock intake as well mate and am not after a showy neat and tidy engine bay as long as it’s reliable that’s my main factor as not chasing bhp Figures and although my 5 speed box has already been rebuilt last year don’t want to blow it

I looked at that Noz when I was researching using a TT ecu and coil packs has anybody had much success with this and does this look right to you

 

I know stand-alone is the best solution and most tuneable but to get me running while I save and I have spare looms I don’t mind modifying one and keeping original for future ecu upgrades to revert back to

Edited May 4, 2020 by Dan8 (see edit history)

[Dan8]

Just a quickie while am stripping the head completely back ready for rebuild after skimming and new valve stems oil seals and lap the valves back in

I was wondering do I need to run all this vacuum under inlet if I doing the NA-T route

[Noz]

The US na.t boys used to love the GTE ecu setup. Its massively cheaper.

 

No one in the uk I know as far as I know has done this. They all choose to go down an ecu upgrade route.

 

But it's been done a lot. Sadly US forums clubna-t went down and I've not seen it about but I haven't looked for a long long time as my builds fairly stable these days.

[Suprakeith]

Just a quickie while am stripping the head completely back ready for rebuild after skimming and new valve stems oil seals and lap the valves back in

I was wondering do I need to run all this vacuum under inlet if I doing the NA-T route [ATTACH=CONFIG]235563[/ATTACH]

 

Yes need to keep the vacuum ivac system if keeping the stock inlet

[Dan8]

I wondered why some of the links I was trying to use view pictures relating to there site wouldn’t load that’s a shame why would they just let all that info go

The main thing I was curious about is that timing spike the NA has at 4500 rpm and using the TT ecu and coils And how it effects it or does it flatten it a bit as the dizzy pickup still controls the signal doesn’t it but only want to run lowish boost anyways

 

And thanks Keith will leave it in place

[Noz]

You'll need to ditch the dizzy sensor and run a gte oil pump for a signal. Distributor only provides one pulse output per cam gear rotation. This isnt enough for the ecu. Thus you'll need a stand alone or for the GTE ECU using crank position off the oil pump.

[Dan8]

Thanks Noz top man

I was using a GTE oil pump anyways just for the apparently better flow characteristics and pressure it has but I didn’t know it was part of producing the signal element side of things

Does this mean I still need the TT crank pulley as well as Style mentioned just piecing it all together thanks for the help people

[Noz]

Style was proposing you fit a gte pump gear. Swapping a gte pump would bring the gear with it usually. So we are saying the same thing.

[Style]

I was meaning the crank trigger which is a seperate item unfortunately, so you'll have to add it to your list. There's a difference between the VVTi and non-VVTi ones so don't make the same mistake I did and buy the wrong one

 

6, full sequential coil packs I think you can use both. But if you are running 3 packs in wasted spark configuration, you'll need the 36-2 VVTi gear. Here's a link to the non-VVTi one. It can be had for cheaper though

 

http://www.garagewhifbitz.co.uk/garage-whifbitz-1238.html

[Dan8]

Fantastic info thanks for that lads potentially saved me a few headaches there much appreciated I gathering all your info together and putting together my parts list

Now I understand the NA-TT ecu mod conversion better if I do go this route as it only showed 3 coils pack and wondered why it didn’t have 6 now I know it must be running in the wasted spark formation meaning I need that VVTi gear

Thanks

[Josh42]

Yes need to keep the vacuum ivac system if keeping the stock inlet

 

I deleted all of this and the ACIS valve. Not necessary.

 

 

 

[Josh42]

I wondered why some of the links I was trying to use view pictures relating to there site wouldn’t load that’s a shame why would they just let all that info go

The main thing I was curious about is that timing spike the NA has at 4500 rpm and using the TT ecu and coils And how it effects it or does it flatten it a bit as the dizzy pickup still controls the signal doesn’t it but only want to run lowish boost anyways

 

And thanks Keith will leave it in place

 

Hi Dan,

 

No need to leave this in place. If you remove the ACIS valve by removing the butterfly and drilling and tapping the inlet, you can remove the “spike” @4500k.

 

Mine has run in this configuration for 6+ years now.

 

 

 

[Dan8]

Really that’s interesting josh what exactly am I required to put in the drilled and tapped hole and is it still as responsive as a NA-T with this still I place thanks Josh

[Josh42]

I just drilled and tapped the hole and blanked with a bolt which had thread lock on.

 

No issues with response, my setup spools quickly.

 

 

 

[Dan8]

Ah rght I know what you mean now thanks Josh I might do it to one of my manifolds from one of my spare Engines then can always revert back but if it removes that spike might be beneficial when tuning Is this the only thing that causes it or is it built into the timing as well somewhat in ECU signals does anybody know

Cheers again

[Mike2JZ]

The spike in timing is controlled via the factory NA ECU. Removing the ACIS setup on the car will not remove the timing spike.

 

It will occur if you have the mechanical ACIS valve or not. If you are using something like an eManage to piggyback the stock ECU, you will need to pull timing out in the ~4500rpm areas to avoid this issue. You will not have to worry about this using TT ECU.

 

I can make a better recommendation though. The "NA-T Bible" thread is really old now, and whilst it has some good knowledge in there, there are a number of areas that I'd recommend not trying. One of which is setting your car up using a TT ECU. Yes it half works, but its more trouble that its worth, trust me, been there got the t-shirt, wouldn't do it again.

 

Rather than spending money on expensive used stock ECU's, then bolting on an emanages and ruining your stock wiring harness to bodge a TT ECU in there. Take £500 go buy yourself an ECUMaster classic & an adapter harness. Now you will have the freedom to do whatever you like on your setup and not constantly have to fight a stock ECU or wonder if its doing the right thing etc etc.

 

Plug it in and voila you have a full running standlaone with sensors for less than a grand. Didn't have that available to us when the "NA-T bible" was written.

 

Also if you aren't looking for mad power, then leave the dizzy in. If you need COP without re-engineering half your engine, leave the dizzy in and use it as your triggering system for ECU. K.I.S.S.