Stroker kits

[Mike2JZ]

Everyone uses E85 in the tank. Which is in my opinion, only suitable for a track.

 

In my opinion, E85 should be used on a button when you want it. You don't have nitrous being used between bursts it's the same for E85.

 

Why is this the case? It's the case because people map in a fuel sensor and blend in the tank. If you could visualise the actual boosted E85 vs the distance travelled using E85 off power it would be obvious to most.

 

I plan to have a separate tank, second fuel line, and potentially second set of injectors to feed the E85 mix.

 

Ideally, you'd have it blended in the fuel line, but I'm not sure how I could switch fuels quick enough without using the injectors.

 

Why has no one tried this? I've no idea. I don't think any other way would work quick enough, as fuel pump operation (on/off switching) isn't quick enough. Whereas two separate fuels recirculating constantly, the other when not in use would work (E85 system off when map not running).

 

This is obviously a theory, you would either be racing or not racing so no one with any money has ever thought to trial a system or desired it. But for me, I don't want to be pulling over dumping in E85. Nor hitting traffic with a tank full of it, only to have to mix some more. Pain in the a**.

 

Bignum is right, reliability has been raised a few times with them too. The rods are designed for the cranks, so a built engine can use a stock crank. Stroker setup would mean forever needing the crank.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

A non turbo crank is what he means.

 

 

So to offset the cost of wasting some e85 in traffic when you use some rarely throughout a year, you are going to spend thousands implementing a second fuel system. Lol. I'll tell you why no one has done this, because it's not practical or cost effective.

 

Strokers are cool but making ridiculous torque down low is going to spin wheels and break parts when it finally hooks, so try not to go to extreme with the quest for ultimate torque/response under 4k.

[Style]

Everyone uses E85 in the tank. Which is in my opinion, only suitable for a track.

 

In my opinion, E85 should be used on a button when you want it. You don't have nitrous being used between bursts it's the same for E85.

 

Why is this the case? It's the case because people map in a fuel sensor and blend in the tank. If you could visualise the actual boosted E85 vs the distance travelled using E85 off power it would be obvious to most.

 

I plan to have a separate tank, second fuel line, and potentially second set of injectors to feed the E85 mix.

 

Ideally, you'd have it blended in the fuel line, but I'm not sure how I could switch fuels quick enough without using the injectors.

 

Why has no one tried this? I've no idea. I don't think any other way would work quick enough, as fuel pump operation (on/off switching) isn't quick enough. Whereas two separate fuels recirculating constantly, the other when not in use would work (E85 system off when map not running).

 

This is obviously a theory, you would either be racing or not racing so no one with any money has ever thought to trial a system or desired it. But for me, I don't want to be pulling over dumping in E85. Nor hitting traffic with a tank full of it, only to have to mix some more. Pain in the a**.

 

Bignum is right, reliability has been raised a few times with them too. The rods are designed for the cranks, so a built engine can use a stock crank. Stroker setup would mean forever needing the crank.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

A non turbo crank is what he means.

 

Sounds very complicated lol.

 

Could you not just have the mix in the ethanol tank? So both systems are entirely independent, 1 tank has pump fuel and the second has a pump/ethanol mix? The flex fuel sensor on that circuit will tell you what ratio of ethanol you're running and you can dose the tank to suit.

 

I still see 1 system being the best solution where you just add as you go though tbh. Turn up at the track with a 1/4 tank, chuck some ethanol in and away you go. Fill the tank with pump fuel on your way home again once you're done. I don't think ethanol is hugely expensive so it would be a lot of work just to save some pennies from wasted ethanol pottering about the pits or whatever.

 

But at the same time, I know you love the innovation side of it

[Noz]

So to offset the cost of wasting some e85 in traffic when you use some rarely throughout a year, you are going to spend thousands implementing a second fuel system. Lol. I'll tell you why no one has done this, because it's not practical or cost effective.

 

Strokers are cool but making ridiculous torque down low is going to spin wheels and break parts when it finally hooks, so try not to go to extreme with the quest for ultimate torque/response under 4k.

 

If your fuel system cost you thousands, you might want to consider where you order parts.

 

Just because you dont think something isnt a good idea, doesnt make the challenge pointless.

[Noz]

Sounds very complicated lol.

 

Could you not just have the mix in the ethanol tank? So both systems are entirely independent, 1 tank has pump fuel and the second has a pump/ethanol mix? The flex fuel sensor on that circuit will tell you what ratio of ethanol you're running and you can dose the tank to suit.

 

I still see 1 system being the best solution where you just add as you go though tbh. Turn up at the track with a 1/4 tank, chuck some ethanol in and away you go. Fill the tank with pump fuel on your way home again once you're done. I don't think ethanol is hugely expensive so it would be a lot of work just to save some pennies from wasted ethanol pottering about the pits or whatever.

 

But at the same time, I know you love the innovation side of it

 

Having a quick change system would be a fairly straight forward setup to be fair. And perhaps a better route than a twin rail. Would just be the switching. As youd want the engine off and the fuel rail running the right fuel.

[Lee P]

If your fuel system cost you thousands, you might want to consider where you order parts.

 

Just because you dont think something isnt a good idea, doesnt make the challenge pointless.

 

Surely what you have described is basically a meth injection kit?

 

That will do what your asking when you need it without blending the fuel in the tank and using it all the time.

[Noz]

Surely what you have described is basically a meth injection kit?

 

That will do what your asking when you need it without blending the fuel in the tank and using it all the time.

 

I suppose it is mate, of sorts really. Same concept.

 

I just didnt think you would have the level of control using typical jets instead of nozzles, or be able to flow enough volume. But then I dont know, i havent begun looking much further than I've described.

[Noz]

What if you ran a second fuel line into the fuel system with the E85 before the fuel flex sensor? So you mix on the go.

 

Just a tank, small pump and Y branch to consider.

[Mo Reviews]

What if you ran a second fuel line into the fuel system with the E85 before the fuel flex sensor? So you mix on the go.

 

Just a tank, small pump and Y branch to consider.

 

How would you ensure the concentration of the mix?

[Noz]

Youd need a return setup for the pump. Youd have a regulator.

 

The feed pipe would need a flow resistor fitting. This the given pressure and fitting area would determine flow.

 

I mean I'm only bouncing off ideas.

 

Then it's basically just swapping fuel tanks while moving.

[Lee P]

Just seems over complicated for no real reason.

 

I think for anyone wanting some benefits of Alcohol fuel you either run a flex sensor and put the fuel in the tank or you run meth injection.

 

For me the flex sensor is the better option but depends on your ECU and supporting setup.

 

Meth injection is very popular in modern car tuning because they run high compression and restrictive setups so benefit from running it all the time.

 

On a good supra setup while there is always benefits with better fuel you can run 800,900,1000hp on our UK pump fuel (depending on turbo and setup).

 

So im not sure why you would need meth injection or some kind or switchable system, you just use the Ethanol when you want the extra protection or power boost for racing events ect.

 

UK fuel is all now E5 which is good and there is talk of E10 maybe in the future

 

Anything up to E10 you dont need any tuning or ecu setup to run it. Just gives you extra protection and cooling which is great for a track day or racing event.

[Suprakeith]

I been having interesting read on this as in future was thinking stroker kit, but unless chasing massive power, think it’s not worth the expense at all.

In my opinion and this is only an opinion I think it want low down torque then nitrous seems the best bet to me, I have run nos on my supra for years without any problems and you get more torque than hp using nitrous, I was running a 75 wet show and as states was getting around 75bhp extra using nos but was also getting around 100 ftlb torque while using the nos.

Plus with nos you have the added bonus of it cools temps aswell, so as long as set up the nitrous correct shouldn’t have any problems at all.

And also with standalone ecu you can control the nitrous and how much in each rev range and gear to get maximum results.

I had a custom built nitrous system fitted to mine and I can use the nos from standing start which made massive difference when going up drag strip.

[Noz]

Just seems over complicated for no real reason.

 

I think for anyone wanting some benefits of Alcohol fuel you either run a flex sensor and put the fuel in the tank or you run meth injection.

 

For me the flex sensor is the better option but depends on your ECU and supporting setup.

 

Meth injection is very popular in modern car tuning because they run high compression and restrictive setups so benefit from running it all the time.

 

On a good supra setup while there is always benefits with better fuel you can run 800,900,1000hp on our UK pump fuel (depending on turbo and setup).

 

So im not sure why you would need meth injection or some kind or switchable system, you just use the Ethanol when you want the extra protection or power boost for racing events ect.

 

UK fuel is all now E5 which is good and there is talk of E10 maybe in the future

 

Anything up to E10 you dont need any tuning or ecu setup to run it. Just gives you extra protection and cooling which is great for a track day or racing event.

 

Thanks for the feedback Lee. I suppose I was looking at nitrous style setup but using a safer fuel instead and a more on the fly initialisation.

 

Appreciate the thoughts on my idea. Though it was a crazy one.

[Frank Bullitt]

I like torque, hence my interest in a 'stroker kit'... only concern with an auto and a high stall (3800) is how it will deliver that power to the road without lighting up the rear wheels and/or breaking something?

 

There is a lot more to building for response & torque than a stroker kit but if your pockets are deep enough and you can afford the stripdown & rebuilds why not. There is an age-old axiom which goes, there's no replacement for displacement. But best bang for buck it isn’t.

 

First thing I would be doing is getting shot of that hi-stall and going back to stock unless you only intend to run 1/4 drag races. That slippage is very high, creating unnecessary heat and wasting power.

 

If you don’t mind me asking who rebuilt the Titan box? The reason I ask is because the strengthened parts (the ones that are known to fail) are proprietary to the trader that sells them. To the best of my knowledge there isn’t one UK trader who has their auto boxes run at high torque and hammered run after run on a regular basis. I’d be very cautious running a rebuilt box unless the work was carried out stateside. Do you know what clutch packs were used in the rebuild? How many coolers are you running and what size? Are you running an in-line thermostat for the coolers?

 

Yeah mate. Which is why my next goal is et time of 10 seconds. Not power. No good having power then being destroyed by a standard R35 which cost less money.

 

You managed to sort those traction issues out then? No good having power then being destroyed by a standard R35 which cost less money if you still can’t put the power down

Edited May 1, 2020 by Frank Bullitt (see edit history)

[Noz]

R888 saved my bacon my friend!

 

No one likes 80mph wheelspins. Third gear hooks all the way now.

 

Second gear is good, if I'm progressive with the throttle and dont plant it. I'm sure it could be better with some better camber adjustment. For now I feel safe, wasnt enjoyable or really drivable on the Michelins.

[Mo Reviews]

There is a lot more to building for response & torque than a stroker kit but if your pockets are deep enough and you can afford the stripdown & rebuilds why not. There is an age-old axiom which goes, there's no replacement for displacement. But best bang for buck it isn’t.

 

First thing I would be doing is getting shot of that hi-stall and going back to stock unless you only intend to run 1/4 drag races. That slippage is very high, creating unnecessary heat and wasting power.

 

If you don’t mind me asking who rebuilt the Titan box? The reason I ask is because the strengthened parts (the ones that are known to fail) are proprietary to the trader that sells them. To the best of my knowledge there isn’t one UK trader who has their auto boxes run at high torque and hammered run after run on a regular basis. I’d be very cautious running a rebuilt box unless the work was carried out stateside. Do you know what clutch packs were used in the rebuild? How many coolers are you running and what size? Are you running an in-line thermostat for the coolers?

 

I am aiming for the most responsive four figure build, mechanics and physics permitting, of course. That axiom was primarily concocted to keep the masses hooked on large capacity engines, in the face of increasing fuel prices. Though, much more efficient technology now exists to allow us to extract more more power from far smaller engines.

 

I do intend in taking part in a few drag racing events but above all, it will be a street car. I feel that without the high stall torque converter, I'd be stuck with ridiculous amounts of lag, a high stall simply skips all the lag of a big turbo auto and drops me straight on the naughty side of the power band. If the heat can be managed, what's there not to like (aside from the obvious increase in noise)?

 

The box was rebuilt by the company SRD use for their built autos. From my very limited experience with the box, given the current climate, I have been extremely impressed, especially, at how quickly it now changes gears! Without any exaggeration, the rate the gearbox now shifts through the gears, whether in auto or manual flappy paddle mode, rivals the rate at which the ZF8 box in the much newer cars I've owned and driven does.

 

As for the uprated parts, they were not Titan branded. They were imported from the USA, and I'm sure Lee or someone from his team can correct me here, but they are the same parts used by ATF Speed, as made famous by the 'Baltic Supra'. Ultimately, I am happy to see how the box holds up. If it blows then it blows, I guess, and I have already made my intentions known that I'd be sending the box to ATF Speed if it does end up needing a further rebuild in the near future.

 

No idea about whether it's running a thermostat (what does that even do?) but it's currently running two Setrab 13 row coolers. I may decide to add another when I start increasing the power. It's only running a modest 700hp set up, at the moment.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Mo Reviews (see edit history)

[Swampy442]

No idea about whether it's running a thermostat (what does that even do?) but it's currently running two Setrab 13 row coolers. I may decide to add another when I start increasing the power. It's only running a modest 700hp set up, at the moment.

 

Running auto box fluid too cool is as bad as running it too hot, thats part of why the stock cooler runs through the rad, to add a bit of a heating effect. Thats what Ive been told anyway

[Frank Bullitt]

Running auto box fluid too cool is as bad as running it too hot, thats part of why the stock cooler runs through the rad, to add a bit of a heating effect. Thats what Ive been told anyway

 

Spot on

[Mo Reviews]

Running auto box fluid too cool is as bad as running it too hot, thats part of why the stock cooler runs through the rad, to add a bit of a heating effect. Thats what Ive been told anyway

 

Spot on

 

Thanks chaps, I'll have a look into that.

[bayside_supra]

Just coming back to this. Is the general consensus that going stroker is more hassle and cost than it’s worth?

 

I’m almost ready to build my bottom end and was tempted to add a stroker crank to the list, as it seemed like only one more part required and I would have a 3.4l, which would be cool. But then you guys mention reliability which I never considered. Do they break a lot then?

 

I have a long list of parts and machining etc already, and was looking at adding something like the whifbitz crankshaft to the build. As it’s coming in at under £2k the price didn’t seem too scary. But I don’t want something that will be less reliable.

 

Also I’m building it for low spool too, so have a cnc ported head and pt 6870 with a small ar, but gave built the head for more revs, like 8000+. Would the stroker make the higher revs harder to achieve?

 

 

 

[Swampy442]

Being less reliable, in the real world how many times will you actually rev to 8000rpm? Not very often I reckon. Also the compromise of building for quick spool low in the rev range is there will be a point when the engine stops making usable power and you're just revving for the sake of it, the 2 goals are kind of at odds

[Noz]

Everyone wants low spool.

 

No one uses pre spool nitrous?

 

Using E85 daily seems a better option for spool vs a stroker on pump gas. Just a viewpoint looking at dyno comparisons.

[Mo Reviews]

I also considered going 3.4 and nitrous but the thing is, they both have the effect of generating arguably too much low down torque. When that happens, the car becomes almost un-drivable on road tyres (these cars are RWD after all), especially when you throw VVTI in to the mix, as in my case, then it would become even more of a death trap...

[Luxluc]

My ultimate setup would be 3.6 and VVTi

[Suprakeith]

Everyone wants low spool.

 

No one uses pre spool nitrous?

 

Using E85 daily seems a better option for spool vs a stroker on pump gas. Just a viewpoint looking at dyno comparisons.

 

I going pre spool nitrous on my build [emoji4]

[Mo Reviews]

My ultimate setup would be 3.6 and VVTi

 

Go sit in a corner Luc, you have enough power as it is!