Turbo exhaust gasket spoiled my fastest run.

[herbiemercman]

Hi Guys, Last week i took advantage of pushing my car to the limit, the acceleration and max speed achieved was fantastic, the actual time the car reaches the high speeds is to me what is so impressive, at the time i only needed three of the gears to get to a "oner". Anyway i paid the price in that when i reached home the car sounded good and loud, and on investigation i found the turbo to exhaust manifold gasket had blown out and melted!

When i called my mechanic friend who helped me replace the head gasket some weeks back he reminded me that we did not have a replacement gasket at the time, and he made me remember that i made one in 1.5mm sheet aluminium. So i have checked the melting point of this material and it is circa 650C, so with the exhaust gasses being around 950C it is easy to see what happened.The ali lasted for quite a time and may have lasted longer on a standard road car. Anyway i have ordered a new gasket following a major investigation of knowing what make and model of turbo i have, thanks to "sidewaysdan" who has the same conversion kit by Dr J, told me this info, it is XS Power, a USA company, two weeks delivery and $16 P&P and the gasket $12, they can "F" off. So i called up Craig, (Dr Jekle. Rocket Dog Racing) who has stood by me for the last 3 years, he told me i needed a T4 single scroll gasket.

A turbo recon company in Manchester had the exact gasket SS laminates and only £6.80 and P&p express del. £9.

So all the bits have to be removed to replace this simple thing that i Fu-ked up on when we replaced the head gasket, if you want to own these cars you have to learn a lot and be able to repair them, but they are worth it. What do you think? Herbie.

Edited April 12, 2020 by herbiemercman
added text. (see edit history)

[Noz]

Hi mate.

 

I've always had gasket issues. Mainly due to fitment, surfaces not being truly flat or removing parts so many times bits get damaged. Had few scrappy garages over the years.

 

I assumed you meant turbo outlet exhaust until reference to the T4 flange size.

 

I used a steel gasket. Never heard of an aluminium one.

 

I'd be getting a steel one. Itll last forever. They usually fold the edges to give a seal.

 

The gasket is determined by the turbo flange type, not the turbo itself. A bit like wheels using a standardised dimensions for the location of the holes.

[mellonman]

Herbie , your problem was you done a cheap N/A-T build . if you had gone the higher end on the right parts you wouldn't of had a lot of your issues .

a lot of the ebay turbo kits oil lines , gaskets and junk and the waste gates are hit and miss

out of interest what make and spec of turbo is yours ?

[Noz]

Not everyone can afford a high end build.

 

I dont think you need to spend out on everything. I think he just got unlucky.

 

I've never even seen an aluminium gasket. But granted lines are typically incorrect for most setups.

[sidewaysdan]

Mellonman .. I think he’s definitely been unlucky. I know people including myself have used well known supra tuner/builders and been completely ripped off by them..apparently using quality parts and still failing.

[Mk4Gaz]

It seems he made his own gasket from aluminium sheet, instead of just buying one.

 

Multi layered steel gaskets should pretty much last forever, aluminium is not suitable for exhaust gaskets.

 

This isn't a question of whether these cars are worth the time and investment, the problem was caused by inadequate materials being used.

 

 

[Swampy442]

Herbie , your problem was you done a cheap N/A-T build . if you had gone the higher end on the right parts you wouldn't of had a lot of your issues .

 

This, and maybe a lack of knowledge on what parts are good quality and what aren't, anybody with a bit of experience could maybe spot a rogue gasket.

 

And no, not everyone can afford to buy a Whifbitz kit, but that kit is top quality, you get what you pay for, and the results/reliabillity will follow. Like many, I say you cant go single turbo on the cheap.

[herbiemercman]

It seems he made his own gasket from aluminium sheet, instead of just buying one.

 

Multi layered steel gaskets should pretty much last forever, aluminium is not suitable for exhaust gaskets.

 

This isn't a question of whether these cars are worth the time and investment, the problem was caused by inadequate materials being used.

 

/QUOTE]

 

Spot on Mk4Gaz, I did not know the material's temp spec and paid the price, could not source the correct gasket at the time and was anxciouse to get the beast running after 5 days working in my drive way mostly in the rain. Herbie.

[herbiemercman]

This, and maybe a lack of knowledge on what parts are good quality and what aren't, anybody with a bit of experience could maybe spot a rogue gasket.

 

And no, not everyone can afford to buy a Whifbitz kit, but that kit is top quality, you get what you pay for, and the results/reliabillity will follow. Like many, I say you cant go single turbo on the cheap.

 

Hi Swampy, I would agree with you in general re, "You Get What You Pay For", but as others have said you have to have that money, also i have enjoyed the learning curve and the actual improvements i have made myself, several things, need for oil cooler, need for AFR gauge wideband, thicker more robust head gasket, etc, yes a lot more money and work and frustration, and most of all lots of help from certain members of this club, this journey was well posted by me to educate the less uninitiated members.

I also agree that "anybody with a bit of experience" could spot a rogue gasket and may not have the experience to know the quality parts. I have an HND in mechanical engineering and i do know what is quality and FFP (fit for purpose), i have also carried out FMEA's, (failure mode and effect analysis) on high cost engineering projects etc. The gasket failure was the use of aluminium sheeting and i made it, i could not source the correct part and i was under pressure to get the car back on the road. Herbie.

Edited April 14, 2020 by herbiemercman (see edit history)

[herbiemercman]

Herbie , your problem was you done a cheap N/A-T build . if you had gone the higher end on the right parts you wouldn't of had a lot of your issues .

a lot of the ebay turbo kits oil lines , gaskets and junk and the waste gates are hit and miss

out of interest what make and spec of turbo is yours ?

 

Hi Mellonman, My turbo is a XS.Power, T61, Garrett copy i think and one third of the cost.

With reference to the higher market Tuners, would they have included an oil cooler? or an AFR Gauge? The only two performance failures i have experienced in the past 3 years with my NAT build is the head gasket, which are renowned for failure on the NA's, and a sticking open waste gate/ dump valve. Herbie.

[Mk4Gaz]

Spot on Mk4Gaz, I did not know the material's temp spec and paid the price, could not source the correct gasket at the time and was anxciouse to get the beast running after 5 days working in my drive way mostly in the rain. Herbie.

We all have to learn mate, but at least you tried, failed, and learnt [emoji1303]

 

 

[mellonman]

Hi Mellonman, My turbo is a XS.Power, T61, Garrett copy i think and one third of the cost.

With reference to the higher market Tuners, would they have included an oil cooler? or an AFR Gauge? The only two performance failures i have experienced in the past 3 years with my NAT build is the head gasket, which are renowned for failure on the NA's, and a sticking open waste gate/ dump valve. Herbie.

 

no they wouldn't have included them parts unless you wanted them , don't get me wrong a lot of tuners are there to relieve you of your money its their business and will up sell when they can.

me myself have done a single turbo on the cheap but got a lot of better parts

proper hks waste gate

precision turbo

proper steal gaskets

and oil lines and breather setup

I did have a xs power manifold until I cracked it and then went with a better ebay job 3mm thick wall manifold. this is where a large saving can be made as its metal pipes for the manifold and down pipe and screamer.

 

the thing is the wastegate could have stuck closed making excessive boost which blew your head gasket . no one could know but it could be the case .

im glad you stuck at it and are learning as did I , if you can work on cars and fixing the problems they throw at you then it can be rewarding but can also be a uphill struggle.

Edited April 13, 2020 by mellonman (see edit history)

[Dnk]

I guess you were testing this on the way to the shops

[Mo Reviews]

I guess you were testing this on the way to the shops

 

To get essential items...

[Style]

I guess you were testing this on the way to the shops

 

To get essential items...

 

My thoughts too

 

Also, headgaskets on any 2J’s aren’t really renowned for failing. Mk3’s did them for fun with the 7M engine hence Toyota doing a lot of work on rectifying the issue going forward.

[tayr]

310 stainless steel, good for up to 1050 C

[herbiemercman]

no they wouldn't have included them parts unless you wanted them , don't get me wrong a lot of tuners are there to relieve you of your money its their business and will up sell when they can.

me myself have done a single turbo on the cheap but got a lot of better parts

proper hks waste gate

precision turbo

proper steal gaskets

and oil lines and breather setup

I did have a xs power manifold until I cracked it and then went with a better ebay job 3mm thick wall manifold. this is where a large saving can be made as its metal pipes for the manifold and down pipe and screamer.

 

the thing is the wastegate could have stuck closed making excessive boost which blew your head gasket . no one could know but it could be the case .

im glad you stuck at it and are learning as did I , if you can work on cars and fixing the problems they throw at you then it can be rewarding but can also be a uphill struggle.

 

Cheers mellonman, My wastegate was stuck open so i lost all the boost, this was hard on the heels of me 3 days earlier loosing all my boost from a silicon rubber boost pipe elbow splitting wide open.

With reference to the head gasket, i think the OEM knew what they were doing with the 1.3mm gasket against the NA one at 0.6mm. I have also fitted the extra diff torque bush for the same reason. I hope my exhaust manifold which may be an XS holds out. Herbie.

[herbiemercman]

I guess you were testing this on the way to the shops

 

Hi Dunk, No not the shops, my wife sees to that, i have to spray her when she gets back and wash the bananas, tins etc. I was rushing to help my younger brother Gareth, who had broken down in his car at a dangerous location, i did see a red flash on the hard shoulder before i started lowering my under carrage to join the slip road. Herbie.

[David P]

Herbie, To save you needing to keep creating new threads about your engine, it would be easier for everyone if you kept it all under one title.

 

"This is what happens when you bodge it and/or do it on the cheap" would cover it.

[herbiemercman]

My thoughts too

 

Also, headgaskets on any 2J’s aren’t really renowned for failing. Mk3’s did them for fun with the 7M engine hence Toyota doing a lot of work on rectifying the issue going forward.

 

Hi Style, It was members in the Club that told me about the NA gaskets being poor, and i cannot be sure if that is the case, all i do know is it would be folly IMHO, with the expence and difficulty of replacing a head gasket, not to fit the much more robust gasket, the reduction in CR is minimal. Herbie.

[herbiemercman]

Herbie, To save you needing to keep creating new threads about your engine, it would be easier for everyone if you kept it all under one title.

 

"This is what happens when you bodge it and/or do it on the cheap" would cover it.

 

Hi David, I fitted the extra torque bush you recommended in your really well outlined sticky, but i did not start a thread titled, "MY Mk4 Suspension And Drive Train", to tell other members about it.

If i titled all my issues on my NAT Conversion with "My MK4 Engine" it would be a mile long, it can't be much trouble for members to read my threads, and i think it works fine,and stands out more.

I do not bodge things, if you are referring to my turbo exhaust gasket, i explained i thought the aluminium one i made would be ok, there were also pressure circumstances to get the job completed. Herbie.

[Noz]

Dont take David too personally Herbie. Hes a lovely cuddle bunny who is only trying to say hello in his own special way.

 

[herbiemercman]

Thanks Noz, I was aware that David could be a bit critical where members had made silly mistakes with their engineering knowledge etc, however he helped me when i was looking for a good engine Tuner/Mapper, he told me some good ones he knew, he also told me "They are Tuners" NOT Mappers. Herbie.

[Mo Reviews]

Herbie, To save you needing to keep creating new threads about your engine, it would be easier for everyone if you kept it all under one title.

 

[herbiemercman]

 

Hi Adam, See my reply to DavidP. Herbie.