Coronavirus Or The Virus From China

[Frank Bullitt]

2 hours ago, Annabella said:

Only politician of note I've heard chirp up about this is IDS

Shame he didn’t do better when he had the chance. His stedfast approach to the UK leaving the EU and this have been refreshing.

[Frank Bullitt]

2 hours ago, Scooter said:

At least (for the time being - although frontline NHS staff are) we can watch from the sidelines at others bringing in mandates, it'll be interesting to see what reactions there are in Europe next year.

https://theconversation.com/why-the-uk-shouldnt-introduce-mandatory-covid-vaccination-173179

 

 

Interesting until he said…

“The risk of vaccine mandates to public confidence in government is substantial, but there are even more important moral issues. Vaccine mandates are a highly significant infringement of individual liberty and, for some, they cross a line that should never be crossed. But mandates may be justified if they are necessary to achieve a proportionate public health goal and are effective in doing so.”

It is never justified. End of. Unless we want to watch the world burn. You can’t stigmatise or segregate parts of society. So force the jab? How? Economical? People are too resilient. Maybe not so much today. Then the big one. Taking individuals by force and vaccinating by force.

People need to see through the hysteria, the hype and the media. People need common sense, something that appears to be seriously lacking today.

[Annabella]

28 minutes ago, Frank Bullitt said:

If you’re going to play that game, I knew that was going to be your regurgitated sheeple narrative response. See, name calling gets us no where. We all have a right to air views without being mocked, ye? Point made?

Chemistry & biology made up a large part of my degree course (so I don’t expecting many will understand the implications of changes made) but do you honestly see no problem with the new wording? Do you understand the difference between the two statements? Not being a dick, I want to know that we both have a clear understanding.

Hint: The goal posts have been changed, in fact widened so much you can’t miss. Ask yourself this, why you would possibly change the goalposts at this specific time?

Maybe you can answer me this too as everyone else has neglected to so far. Do you know what happens if you inject testosterone in to a healthy male body when it isn’t needed? Not a trick question.

Man Tits, his name is Robert Poulson, his name is....

 

And blood clots, decided to look that one up.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Annabella (see edit history)

[Frank Bullitt]

28 minutes ago, Annabella said:

Man Tits, his name is Robert Poulson, his name is....

 

And blood clots, decided to look that one up.

Meat Loaf with boobs, hubba hubba!

Ah the steroid Q. The body stops producing it. Same thing with a flu jab. You lose natural immunity and replace it with something engineered in lab. What can possibly go wrong.

[Big Supes]

7 hours ago, Style said:

I knew that was going to be your response which means you never really looked too far into what actually changed. It was changed to better define what vaccines do as the spotlight was being shon on it by conspiracy theorists etc. Flu vaccines don't stop you from catching Influenza so the new definition has been applicable way before COVID was a thing.

 

Before the change, the definition for “vaccination” read, “the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.” Now, the word “immunity” has been switched to “protection.”

The term “vaccine” also got a makeover. The definition changed from “a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease” to the current “a preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases.” Again, far more accurate when you look at other examples of vaccines that isn't COVID and have been around for a long time

 

The irony of your first paragraph.

Those damn conspiracy theorists, always getting it right, eh!

The term vaccine didn't get a "makeover". It's not a brand image or logo. It was redefined just the same way "pandemic" and "herd immunity" were in order to fit the Covid narrative and act as a pacifier for those who prefer to turn a blind eye as to what's going on right now.

Fear not my old chum. Now they have given "vaccine" a makeover, it means you can get your 4th, 5th and routine yearly jabs like they're part of everyday life. 

Yay for "vaccines"! 

[Style]

15 hours ago, Frank Bullitt said:

If you’re going to play that game, I knew that was going to be your regurgitated sheeple narrative response. See, name calling gets us no where. We all have a right to air views without being mocked, ye? Point made?

Chemistry & biology made up a large part of my degree course (so I don’t expecting many will understand the implications of changes made) but do you honestly see no problem with the new wording? Do you understand the difference between the two statements? Not being a dick, I want to know that we both have a clear understanding.

Hint: The goal posts have been changed, in fact widened so much you can’t miss. Ask yourself this, why you would possibly change the goalposts at this specific time?

Maybe you can answer me this too as everyone else has neglected to so far. Do you know what happens if you inject testosterone in to a healthy male body when it isn’t needed? Not a trick question.

I mean if providing evidence as to where I get my information from after requesting it and not recieving is seen as 'sheeple' then call me Shaun and turn me into a coat in the spring. If you'd come on here and said the sky was red and water was dry, I'd ask for your source of information as well.

I fully understand that the definition has fundamentally changed with the re-wording. My point is that it needed doing regardless of COVID and any vaccines that has come as a result of it. We have all sorts of vaccines that are either 'one and done' or carry a booster after a year that grant immunity to some diseases and that's great, but again flu jabs don't grant immunity...so the definition has never strictly been correct.

I don't think I've made my stance clear yet so I'll add it in now just in case anyone's making assumptions. I'm close to the fence but standing on the side of free choice with regards to vaccinations. I am open minded enough to see the arguements from both camps but ultimately draw the line at free choice and disagree with mandatory jabs.

Final point, not sure where this is going but here goes. One of my friends is a bodybuilding/physique coach so my understanding comes from him basically. Artifical testosterone injections will stop your body producing it by itself, meaning that it will be in a severe deficit once the artifical injections stop. I'd guess this will stunt growth/muscle recovery, introduce infertilitly and probably a smattering of other things. This is after prolonged abuse however, so I don't know if there are any other effects? Happy and open minded enough to be educated on the subject if it bears relevance

[Style]

16 hours ago, Big Supes said:

The irony of your first paragraph.

Those damn conspiracy theorists, always getting it right, eh!

The term vaccine didn't get a "makeover". It's not a brand image or logo. It was redefined just the same way "pandemic" and "herd immunity" were in order to fit the Covid narrative and act as a pacifier for those who prefer to turn a blind eye as to what's going on right now.

Fear not my old chum. Now they have given "vaccine" a makeover, it means you can get your 4th, 5th and routine yearly jabs like they're part of everyday life. 

Yay for "vaccines"! 

I'm struggling to see any irony in my first paragraph if you'd like to enlighten me please? I'm hearing a lot of the things your saying, I'm just not seeing a lot of evidence to back it up and until i do, it's hot air to me 

Pardon me, I'll use a synonym to make zero difference to my point and keep things going then..."revised". I also can't see anything to suggest the definiton of 'pandemic' and 'herd immunity' has been changed in at least a decade. Would you therefore be saying that this whole things goes back as far as 2009?

As I've mentioned above, I think I have certain issues with the vaccine and it's requirements at a certain point in every day life. But I also have fundamental issues with those who oppose literally every measure that's been put in place to at least try and minimise the horrific levels of death that this virus has brought to the world. Even down to the common courtesy of wearing a mask. But hey, maybe I'm biased as an individual who has had to comfort his partner on a very regular basis after they've come home on the brink of a mental breadown due to patients literally dying in their arms...but that's just me.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Style (see edit history)

[Frank Bullitt]

8 hours ago, Style said:

I mean if providing evidence as to where I get my information from after requesting it and not recieving is seen as 'sheeple' then call me Shaun and turn me into a coat in the spring. If you'd come on here and said the sky was red and water was dry, I'd ask for your source of information as well.

I fully understand that the definition has fundamentally changed with the re-wording. My point is that it needed doing regardless of COVID and any vaccines that has come as a result of it. We have all sorts of vaccines that are either 'one and done' or carry a booster after a year that grant immunity to some diseases and that's great, but again flu jabs don't grant immunity...so the definition has never strictly been correct.

I don't think I've made my stance clear yet so I'll add it in now just in case anyone's making assumptions. I'm close to the fence but standing on the side of free choice with regards to vaccinations. I am open minded enough to see the arguements from both camps but ultimately draw the line at free choice and disagree with mandatory jabs.

Final point, not sure where this is going but here goes. One of my friends is a bodybuilding/physique coach so my understanding comes from him basically. Artifical testosterone injections will stop your body producing it by itself, meaning that it will be in a severe deficit once the artifical injections stop. I'd guess this will stunt growth/muscle recovery, introduce infertilitly and probably a smattering of other things. This is after prolonged abuse however, so I don't know if there are any other effects? Happy and open minded enough to be educated on the subject if it bears relevance

It was the inference of Conspiracy Theorist, this is where I took issue and you know it was. Give up the strawman and stop being hyperbolic. As I said, name calling no matter how subtle adds nothing to the conversation.

Back on topic.

Take the US. The most vaccinated state is Vermont. Which state has the highest Covid numbers? Vermont. I would assume that is where vaccine hesitancy starts.

What is the most vaccinated country in the world? Israel. After three rounds of jabs they have some of the highest Covid transmission rates and Covid numbers.

Singapore is one of the most vaccinated countries in the world. 84% vaccinated. Yet it has some of the highest covid rates. Same for Gibraltar and many other places.

They changed the definition of what a vaccine is. This is a treatment at best and a very questionable one at that.

Why is it that the most vaccinated countries have the the highest virus transmission rates?

Why is it that third world countries and provinces like Uttar Pradesh in India, a province that has over 200 million residents that widely prescribed Ivermectin has five to ten covid cases per day?

Why is it that poor African nations have been able to flatten the curve and turn the corner on the virus and yet industrialised wealthy nations like Israel and America haven’t? It’s because they take antimalarials with their breakfast because Malaria is a big issue and Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin and vitamin D are proven to show they can help.

So why peddle the jab?

The whole point of science is consideration, the scientific method, testing the thesis and the hypothesis. Since when was science a democracy?

Before the hysteria that is Covid (by any other name Influenza) scientists used to watch the other side of the equator to try and predict what was going to pop up this side and vice versa. Sometimes it worked, more often than not it didn’t.

People can be wrong about things. As an example it was widely believed that the earth was the center of the universe until the heliocentric theory by Galileo.

Re the steroid thing. If you inject Testosterone into a healthy body, that body stops producing it. Same thing happens with a flu jab. You lose natural immunity and replace it with something engineered in lab.

On to other stuff, god (<- insert preferred deity here) this is getting long!

 

 

 

Part 2

None of this makes sense, none of it. It is mass hysteria about influenza. Why push/force the vaccine when it is obvious to all it doesn’t stop transmission, doesn’t work and the risks for most people outweigh any benefit?

Why is the news continually running with the worst narrative? Particularly the BBC with Channel 4 a close second and ITV nipping at its heels. Why is the news not fairly and equally reported? Everything mentioned above is readily available information.

Why are the death figures being embellished? Any death within 28 days of a positive death. Thats not right by anyones standards.

Why is loss of freedom necessary?

Why vaccinate healthy people?

Why segregate society?

Why is no one questioning this?

Case in point.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/59559623

VS

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/south-african-doctor-raised-alarm-omicron-variant-says-symptoms/

Edited December 8, 2021 by Frank Bullitt (see edit history)

[The Raven]

Awful lot of whys, I can only assume that you have a rough guess. 

Why do you honestly think the world is acting like this? 

Id also like to see the proof the vaccine does not work. I think that a bit of a bold claim. If you believe they can Fudge numbers at will why would they not just say everyone thats died is unvaxed? 

As i said my Mother in law died of covid, my brother in law was crippled by it and is still suffering from its affects. My son had it and didn't have any anything worse than a cold. Now my son is disabled and im his carer so carry all his care needs. I never got it, i was coughed on sneezed on i couldn't have tried to catch it any better if id set out with the goal to get myself infected. Was it that id had both vaccines about 3 weeks before? 

The numbers this time last year with no vaccine where roughly 800 dead per day? this year 100. What changed? By jan of 2021 we peaked at 1800. If your correct and the vaccine does nothing then we should see that again? 

[Annabella]

30 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Awful lot of whys, I can only assume that you have a rough guess. 

Why do you honestly think the world is acting like this? 

Id also like to see the proof the vaccine does not work. I think that a bit of a bold claim. If you believe they can Fudge numbers at will why would they not just say everyone thats died is unvaxed? 

As i said my Mother in law died of covid, my brother in law was crippled by it and is still suffering from its affects. My son had it and didn't have any anything worse than a cold. Now my son is disabled and im his carer so carry all his care needs. I never got it, i was coughed on sneezed on i couldn't have tried to catch it any better if id set out with the goal to get myself infected. Was it that id had both vaccines about 3 weeks before? 

The numbers this time last year with no vaccine where roughly 800 dead per day? this year 100. What changed? By jan of 2021 we peaked at 1800. If your correct and the vaccine does nothing then we should see that again? 

Sorry to hear Raven. Doesn't bare thinking about! 

My youngest had it couple of months back, the Mrs and I didn't get it, and we didn't shut him away etc and in the same car as him pre test, as you say hopefully the vaccine does work. 

[Frank Bullitt]

2 hours ago, The Raven said:

Awful lot of whys, I can only assume that you have a rough guess. 

Why do you honestly think the world is acting like this? 

Id also like to see the proof the vaccine does not work. I think that a bit of a bold claim. If you believe they can Fudge numbers at will why would they not just say everyone thats died is unvaxed? 

As i said my Mother in law died of covid, my brother in law was crippled by it and is still suffering from its affects. My son had it and didn't have any anything worse than a cold. Now my son is disabled and im his carer so carry all his care needs. I never got it, i was coughed on sneezed on i couldn't have tried to catch it any better if id set out with the goal to get myself infected. Was it that id had both vaccines about 3 weeks before? 

The numbers this time last year with no vaccine where roughly 800 dead per day? this year 100. What changed? By jan of 2021 we peaked at 1800. If your correct and the vaccine does nothing then we should see that again? 

I don't have any guesses. I only know what I read and see across many different platforms and have no idea why people are acting this way. Maybe you can explain it?

I think it’s pretty obvious if you read what I have written above to see how well the jab works and I made no such claim that it did not work. Go back and re-read what I wrote please and stop with the straw man. It gets really boring fast.

I am repeating verbatim how a Covid death is recorded. This is nothing new and is common knowledge. A death within 28 days of a positive test is a Covid death. How wide do you want to set those goalposts?

You’re hinting that I said Covid doesn't exist again. For clarity I have never said or inferred anything of the sort.

Numbers would depend on a lot of external factors, one being how virile this strain is. By all accounts, this new variant is more transmissible but appears less deadly at the moment. The flu has always worked this way. It's the nature of the beast and happened every year before 2019 but were were’t being bombarded with influenza figures then.

Maybe you could do me a favour as I have answered everything you have put to me. Do me the common courtesy and try answering some of my questions.

I would be more inclined to chat if this was a two way street rather that a constant barrage in my direction.

Last but not least, I did not say the vaccine does nothing. I can only guess that is your interpretation of what I have written. If it is, you are incorrect to make that assumption. 

In the nicest possible way please stop putting words in my mouth and please stop twisting my words. If you don't understand what I have posted, ask. 

ATB

Edited December 8, 2021 by Frank Bullitt (see edit history)

[The Raven]

58 minutes ago, Frank Bullitt said:

I don't have any guesses. I only know what I read and see across many different platforms and have no idea why people are acting this way. Maybe you can explain it?

I think it’s pretty obvious if you read what I have written above to see how well the jab works and I made no such claim that it did not work. Go back and re-read what I wrote please and stop with the straw man. It gets really boring fast.

I am repeating verbatim how a Covid death is recorded. This is nothing new and is common knowledge. A death within 28 days of a positive test is a Covid death. How wide do you want to set those goalposts?

You’re hinting that I said Covid doesn't exist again. For clarity I have never said or inferred anything of the sort.

Numbers would depend on a lot of external factors, one being how virile this strain is. By all accounts, this new variant is more transmissible but appears less deadly at the moment. The flu has always worked this way. It's the nature of the beast and happened every year before 2019 but were were’t being bombarded with influenza figures then.

Maybe you could do me a favour as I have answered everything you have put to me. Do me the common courtesy and try answering some of my question.

I would be more inclined to chat if this was a two way street rather that a constant barrage in my direction.

Last but not least, I did not say the vaccine does nothing. I can only guess that is your interpretation of what I have written. If it is, you are incorrect to make that assumption. 

In the nicest possible way please stop putting words in my mouth and please stop twisting my words. If you don't understand what I have posted ask. 

ATB

I have copied this from your post above

 

"None of this makes sense, none of it. It is mass hysteria about influenza. Why push/force the vaccine when it is obvious to all it doesn’t stop transmission, doesn’t work and the risks for most people outweigh any benefit?"

That clearly says the vaccine does not work. If ive read that wrong then im happy to stand corrected.

You have constantly called covid influenza. "Overview. Influenza is a viral infection that attacks your respiratory system — your nose, throat and lungs. Influenza is commonly called the flu" That suggests to me that you think covid is merely the flu. Therefore covid isnt real its just the flu. If im wrong on that then im happy to change my thinking on that.

Im happy to answer and debate anyone. If your asking me why i think countries are doing what they are doing? I believe they are doing what they think is best based on the advise they are getting from the medical boards of said country. 

Edit, indeed big sup and i clearly disagree but he has his belief that its the great reset in motion. I dont know enough about that to offer an opinion he believes that and that is fine.

Im actually interested in peoples reasons why they think is all happening if its now what is being portrayed 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by The Raven (see edit history)

[Frank Bullitt]

25 minutes ago, The Raven said:

I have copied this from your post above

 

"None of this makes sense, none of it. It is mass hysteria about influenza. Why push/force the vaccine when it is obvious to all it doesn’t stop transmission, doesn’t work and the risks for most people outweigh any benefit?"

That clearly says the vaccine does not work. If ive read that wrong then im happy to stand corrected.

You have constantly called covid influenza. "Overview. Influenza is a viral infection that attacks your respiratory system — your nose, throat and lungs. Influenza is commonly called the flu" That suggests to me that you think covid is merely the flu. Therefore covid isnt real its just the flu. If im wrong on that then im happy to change my thinking on that.

Im happy to answer and debate anyone. If your asking me why i think countries are doing what they are doing? I believe they are doing what they think is best based on the advise they are getting from the medical boards of said country. 

Edit, indeed big sup and i clearly disagree but he has his belief that its the great reset in motion. I dont know enough about that to offer an opinion he believes that and that is fine.

Im actually interested in peoples reasons why they think is all happening if its now what is being portrayed 

 

 

 

Right, I'll apologise. I didn’t see that. It was supposed to read doesn’t work to stop transmission. I didn’t proof read before posting which is why I was so vociferous in my reply. Sorry. No excuses.

If you have ever had a real dose of the flu you will know it’s not to be sniffed at. No pun intended. I coped it for the first time in my life about 6 years ago and only once in my life thankfully. I'm a relatively fit healthy guy apart from my knackered back, knees and hands. I don’t drink or smoke tobacco. I’m lean and work out every day, either weights, swim in the sea or cardio. I eat well (organic & no red meat) take a couple of vits, minerals and drink a minimum of a litre of water a day. 

I was off my feet for about a month and two weeks of that I barely moved. Recovery took months and a lost a stupid amount of weight. I was laid on the sofa in front of an open fire. Wrapped in a double duvet with hot water bottles as I couldn’t get warm. Sweat pouring off me. Couldn't eat, could barely drink. Was sleeping most of the day away. The pain I can only describe as what I would imagine it feels like to be eaten alive by rats with them gnawing at your bones.

I still haven’t been vaccinated. Natural immunity is the key to life. You start trying to control nature and it bites back. Look at what sterilising hospitals did for us. You only need look to nature to see how it controls the population when certain species become too great in numbers. The history is there for all to read. These people pushing the vaccinate everyone theory are poking the proverbial hornets nest.

If people want the vaccine fine but everyone should be informed about the potential effects rather than leaving that job to whistle blowers as it doesn’t do anyone any favours and heavily undermines trust. Informed consent and all that.

Talking of informed consent, why stop people being allowed to take legal action against the companies producing these jabs? If you do that, you can’t force a vaccination. That is akin to having your cake and eating it but with todays society that is hardly a surprise.

With everything I listed in my longwinded post. The stuff that isn’t getting reported, I have a question for you.

Do you think it is acceptable for a government to become totalitarian when deaths are embellished, the science being reported is one sided, there is loss of freedom, you vaccinate healthy people, segregate society and suppress free knowledge about the effects of the jab?  Now take into account the loss of business that people have worked so hard to build up and how interfering with natural human behaviour is knackering society.

There is so much going on around the world right now. Everywhere you look there is discontent. People fighting, one part of society trying to suppress another, double standards, segregation. You have the potential China / Taiwan, Russia / Ukraine, North Korea / Japan as the main contenders. Then you look east at drone attacks and what looks like attempted missile strikes at nuclear reactors.

Where do you even begin to start. To me the world looks like it’s falling apart. Even the environmentalist green lot have ramped up the chaos and become real tw@ts. Remember them, they were the flower power hippies.

[Frank Bullitt]

Anyway of verifying this?

 

[Frank Bullitt]

A bit of good news?

Senate poised to pass resolution to nullify Biden vaccine mandate - https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/584825-senate-poised-to-pass-resolution-to-nullify-biden-vaccine-mandate

Edited December 8, 2021 by Frank Bullitt (see edit history)

[The Raven]

I wont copy your post, but i understand your typo now. I will take my previous assumption back. 

I have indeed had flu all be it in my early 20s laid me up for week. I also had a run in with viral pneumonia in my mid 30s. That was a whole different ball game. I can honesty say i thought i may die. I was more or less fit as a fiddle granted i have asthma but its controlled and does not stop me from gymming swimming, kickboxing ect. 2 weeks in hospital followed by 2 month recovery.

The issue is covid seems to scatter gun the people it kills. Sure most or old or ill but some like this guy still get killed by it https://inews.co.uk/news/health/fit-healthy-former-body-builder-42-dies-from-covid-hospital-after-refusing-vaccine-1135338 rare sure but they dont know why. 

Same here 90 years old and she lives https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2020-07-08/clap-of-honour-as-90-year-old-covid-survivor-leaves-hospital

I often wonder the public reaction if it had killed mostly the very young. IE 0 to 3 year olds all dying. 

While i tend to agree to a point about Natural immunity ie i dont run in and wash dirt off a cut or stop my kids playing in the dirt you must concede certain vaccines have alter the world for the better. polio and smallpox stick out. 

Do you think it is acceptable for a government to become totalitarian when deaths are embellished, the science being reported is one sided, there is loss of freedom, you vaccinate healthy people, segregate society and suppress free knowledge about the effects of the jab?  Now take into account the loss of business that people have worked so hard to build up and how interfering with natural human behaviour is knackering society.

I think the deaths are recorded the way they are in order to stop people claiming they are hiding them. IE death within 28 days covid mentioned on the cert. Is it right? id rather have the cause of death noted. However they know so little can they honestly say covid had no factor in the heart attack? Killed  by a bus while having covid? Im with you.  

Vaccinate healthy people see above. It may well kill a healthy person just as a weak one again they dont know why.

Vaccine passports im undecided on. I would need to see multiple independent reports proving the affects of transmission or lack thereof 

Business has suffered i do believe the furlough scheme did its best, not that i took part as i was still working. 

Agreed the lock downs have made society suffer. 

I guess i really struggle with finding a reason for every world government to act in the same way. To all follow the same idea with not one breaking ranks. You mention china and russia. Can you imagine if they came out and said "hey no need to lockdown or issue vaccines your government is lying heres the proof" They didn't they just followed the same line as everyone else.

This world rarely pulls together for anything but they did for covid. So unless someone is controlling them all i tend to think it has to be the right response. 

 

[Style]

17 hours ago, Frank Bullitt said:

It was the inference of Conspiracy Theorist, this is where I took issue and you know it was. Give up the strawman and stop being hyperbolic. As I said, name calling no matter how subtle adds nothing to the conversation.

Back on topic.

Take the US. The most vaccinated state is Vermont. Which state has the highest Covid numbers? Vermont. I would assume that is where vaccine hesitancy starts.

What is the most vaccinated country in the world? Israel. After three rounds of jabs they have some of the highest Covid transmission rates and Covid numbers.

Singapore is one of the most vaccinated countries in the world. 84% vaccinated. Yet it has some of the highest covid rates. Same for Gibraltar and many other places.

They changed the definition of what a vaccine is. This is a treatment at best and a very questionable one at that.

Why is it that the most vaccinated countries have the the highest virus transmission rates?

Why is it that third world countries and provinces like Uttar Pradesh in India, a province that has over 200 million residents that widely prescribed Ivermectin has five to ten covid cases per day?

Why is it that poor African nations have been able to flatten the curve and turn the corner on the virus and yet industrialised wealthy nations like Israel and America haven’t? It’s because they take antimalarials with their breakfast because Malaria is a big issue and Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin and vitamin D are proven to show they can help.

So why peddle the jab?

The whole point of science is consideration, the scientific method, testing the thesis and the hypothesis. Since when was science a democracy?

Before the hysteria that is Covid (by any other name Influenza) scientists used to watch the other side of the equator to try and predict what was going to pop up this side and vice versa. Sometimes it worked, more often than not it didn’t.

People can be wrong about things. As an example it was widely believed that the earth was the center of the universe until the heliocentric theory by Galileo.

Re the steroid thing. If you inject Testosterone into a healthy body, that body stops producing it. Same thing happens with a flu jab. You lose natural immunity and replace it with something engineered in lab.

On to other stuff, god (<- insert preferred deity here) this is getting long!

 

 

 

Part 2

None of this makes sense, none of it. It is mass hysteria about influenza. Why push/force the vaccine when it is obvious to all it doesn’t stop transmission, doesn’t work and the risks for most people outweigh any benefit?

Why is the news continually running with the worst narrative? Particularly the BBC with Channel 4 a close second and ITV nipping at its heels. Why is the news not fairly and equally reported? Everything mentioned above is readily available information.

Why are the death figures being embellished? Any death within 28 days of a positive death. Thats not right by anyones standards.

Why is loss of freedom necessary?

Why vaccinate healthy people?

Why segregate society?

Why is no one questioning this?

Case in point.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/59559623

VS

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/south-african-doctor-raised-alarm-omicron-variant-says-symptoms/

My turn to apologise then in that case. I won't make any excuses and dig any further into a pointless debate over it all. So Big Supes, sorry. We all have differing views and they are unlikely to change drastically at this stage. 

Overall I'm not sure why you're asking me all these questions but I can string along to a certain extent I guess. Again, I'm not some sort of super-pro-vaccinate the world person. I have absolute disagreements with a lot of the methods used to essentially force the vaccine on people. All I was stating was that by definition, regardless of it being changed, it has been shown to have at least some effect and again, that's great.

With regards to your statistics on COVID rates around the world, surely there are all sorts of socio-economic and political inputs to consider here? Vermont is a Democratic state through and through, one of Biden's biggest supporters and one of Trumps biggest enemies by and large. So it makes perfect sense for them to both take up the vaccine and take tests whenever they experience symptoms as per Democratic gov instruction. So their statistics are likely to be higher than a lot of other states that oppose everything the goverment suggests, which includes reporting symptoms or taking tests. Especially the die hard Republican states that still hang off every word Trump had to say about it. Same with the 3rd world countries, I wouldn't be surprised if it was being largely ignored and transmission rates are a hell of a lot higher. I really don't think you can compare any of these values as they are so largely differing with their input levels from the general public. Singapore, Gibraltar etc. all seem to be very abiding as well with regards to their governments wishes.

On the testosterone point, it doesn't appear as though we have any real natural immunity to COVID, so what's the issue there?

Phew, still a few more paragraphs to go so I'll keep it short as it seems as though there's been a few posts already on the subject. Again, I agree and question some of the motives. From my professional background, conservatism and safety factors are heavily relied on. This feels a bit like that gone mad, with other governments then overlapping that approach again to 1-up one another.

"We'll do this just to be on the safe side"

"Ah well they've went and introduced these measures, so we'll do the same and then add a few of our own to be safe and present ourselves better"

Repeat multiple times

Edited December 9, 2021 by Style (see edit history)

[Thorin]

Covid has killed over 5 million people. 5 million. Don't give me any bullshit about how it's "just influenza", or "it's not a vaccine", "why give it to people when it doesn't work"... because all that's bull shit and demonstrably false.

Should the vaccine (yes it is a fucking vaccine) be mandated? For people working in the NHS and social care situations yes, for everyone, no it should be their choice. People should at least have some human decency to follow social distancing and mask wearing guidelines where appropriate. Your social liberties are not being taken away from you, you're just being asked to follow some very minor guidelines to help reduce the spread of a virus that you don't know who it might kill. Why is that a bad thing? If everyone had done that, we probably wouldn't still be in the situation where the NHS is struggling to cope, which is the main reason you're being asked to follow these guidelines.

[Big Supes]

No need for the apology @Style, but I thank @Frank Bullittfor righting a wrong. I chose not to reply for the exactly same reason you mentioned: "We all have differing views and they are unlikely to change drastically at this stage.".

I came off Facebook when I realised the constant pysops on the public were playing out to a tee. Seeing absurd comments such as it's a good idea that people are forced to have an ongoing experimental therapeutic that is currently on trial to keep their job is when you realise just how badly people have lost their minds. Absolute face-palm.

My girlfriend too has worked through the height of this so-called pandemic as a nurse. She didn't have the correct PPE, but continued to show up to treat patients in a period of time when we knew nothing about this virus. That took balls, but hey. She's now being faced with the prospect of being sacked if she doesn't get the jab despite witnessing both my parents being injured from it. Clap her one minute and fire her the next, ay. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Capitulation isn't working out for you (anyone reading this thinking it has). Throw the Care Workers and NHS staff under the bus and you''ll be next. You're next anyway. 

I chose to no longer contribute to this thread as it's a lost cause, but I'll sign out by saying that I assure that one day you will see the darkness in all of this. I only hope it will not be too late. There will always be a narrative from invested interests to help pacify, but deep down there will come a time when good people will have to live with knowing that they turned a blind eye to tyranny and failed to leave behind a prosperous and free world to the next generation of this country, as it was left to them. 

Good luck. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Big Supes (see edit history)

[Frank Bullitt]

Just a quick one for tonight - https://www.rt.com/uk/542507-mandatory-vaccine-poll-deleted/

@Style@The Raven Will reply in due course, bit of a mental one tonight. All good though, it’s been a good chat so far. No presumptions, re the questions. Just wondered if you guys saw the same thing and how you squared the circle in your head.

[The Raven]

I have no idea why they have deleted it. 

Im quite clear on my stance on that. You have the right to refuse, same as you have the right to refuse any form of medical intervention.

Removing it wont change anyones mind seems like a pointless thing to do. 

I dont think its a huge cover up as removing it serves no purpose im open to suggestions as to why they may have done it and what they hoped to gain from it.

Indeed freedom of speech is so alive that this was allowed to be in one of the largest newspapers in the country.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10294237/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-party-Ill-lie-want-to.html

Hes saying basically that bringing england in line with the rest of the UK was just an attempt to cover up boris and the parties. Thats insane thinking your thinking you will distract from a scandal by doing the thing they did in the scandal. This will further empower "i do not consent". Which if the new variant turns out to be weaker is fine.  If its not and we see scenes like in Italy at the start of this then not so much. 

The truth is the mail hates work from home as it affects landlords renting huge buildings and people dont go and pick up a paper on the way to work. 

We are in a perfect storm, if this goes badly people wont listen anymore. 

Me i liken it to if i see Boris driving around with no seat belt does not mean i will refuse to wear one. Im hardly putting one over on him if i go head first though the windscreen. 

Others will think differently which i guess is fair enough. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by The Raven (see edit history)

[Frank Bullitt]

23 hours ago, The Raven said:

I wont copy your post, but i understand your typo now. I will take my previous assumption back. 

I have indeed had flu all be it in my early 20s laid me up for week. I also had a run in with viral pneumonia in my mid 30s. That was a whole different ball game. I can honesty say i thought i may die. I was more or less fit as a fiddle granted i have asthma but its controlled and does not stop me from gymming swimming, kickboxing ect. 2 weeks in hospital followed by 2 month recovery.

The issue is covid seems to scatter gun the people it kills. Sure most or old or ill but some like this guy still get killed by it https://inews.co.uk/news/health/fit-healthy-former-body-builder-42-dies-from-covid-hospital-after-refusing-vaccine-1135338 rare sure but they dont know why. 

Same here 90 years old and she lives https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2020-07-08/clap-of-honour-as-90-year-old-covid-survivor-leaves-hospital

I often wonder the public reaction if it had killed mostly the very young. IE 0 to 3 year olds all dying. 

While i tend to agree to a point about Natural immunity ie i dont run in and wash dirt off a cut or stop my kids playing in the dirt you must concede certain vaccines have alter the world for the better. polio and smallpox stick out. 

Do you think it is acceptable for a government to become totalitarian when deaths are embellished, the science being reported is one sided, there is loss of freedom, you vaccinate healthy people, segregate society and suppress free knowledge about the effects of the jab?  Now take into account the loss of business that people have worked so hard to build up and how interfering with natural human behaviour is knackering society.

I think the deaths are recorded the way they are in order to stop people claiming they are hiding them. IE death within 28 days covid mentioned on the cert. Is it right? id rather have the cause of death noted. However they know so little can they honestly say covid had no factor in the heart attack? Killed  by a bus while having covid? Im with you.  

Vaccinate healthy people see above. It may well kill a healthy person just as a weak one again they dont know why.

Vaccine passports im undecided on. I would need to see multiple independent reports proving the affects of transmission or lack thereof 

Business has suffered i do believe the furlough scheme did its best, not that i took part as i was still working. 

Agreed the lock downs have made society suffer. 

I guess i really struggle with finding a reason for every world government to act in the same way. To all follow the same idea with not one breaking ranks. You mention china and russia. Can you imagine if they came out and said "hey no need to lockdown or issue vaccines your government is lying heres the proof" They didn't they just followed the same line as everyone else.

This world rarely pulls together for anything but they did for covid. So unless someone is controlling them all i tend to think it has to be the right response. 

 

That’s the thing with a virus (flu, influenza, pneumonia, covid), it will always attack the vulnerable and there will always be parts of society who are more vulnerable than others. The elderly & immunocompromised are two. The latter being an umbrella term for cancer patients undergoing “treatment” (if you can call it that) and those with end of life care. People who have autoimmune diseases like arthritis and people with colon disease. Then you have heavy smokers, obesity and those with heart or lung problems. I would say those are the most at immediate risk.

You also have to look at genetics.

Then you have the fit healthy people, who for all intents and purposes should be fine but are pushing up daisies in next no time. That is unfortunate. Google cytotoxic storm. It's horrific. In a nutshell it’s our own bodies killing us.

Now have a read of this paper - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7649937/ and let me know your thoughts.

Yes, vaccines have their place. 100%. Smallpox death rate is around 30% (I think) and Polio (poliomyelitis) mainly affects children under 5 years of age with 1 in 200 infections leading to irreversible paralysis and 5% to 10% of those dying when their breathing muscles become immobilised and a death rate in adults of between 15%-30%. We are fortunate not to have TB to worry about either. I wouldn’t travel abroad without the correct jabs. I was bitten by a bat so I had my rabies jab as I didn’t want to risk catching rabies. I didn’t have the jab before I left as I ran out of time (there are only so many you can have in a short space of time) and it wasn’t “essential” as it still works after a potential infection. Instead of three jabs you have six, all in your stomach! The liquid is a purplish colour if my memory serves me correct.

Vaccine passports. Without the jab you can’t travel. Purely by enacting such a stance you penalise/punish the parts of society who don't wish to be vaccinated. You are taking away their right to free choice. By creating a system where some have more freedom than others. That isn’t democratic. That isn't indicative of a free society. It automatically creates a two-tiered society. A them and us. You only have to look at the Stanford prison experiment to see how that will turn out.

Lastly, do you really think the world pulled together? I can’t think of a time where people have behaved towards each other in such a surprising/disappointing/unbelievable/disgusting/cruel way throughout that whole period with an awful lot of gesticulating too. I don’t think the world has been as divided as it is today.

[The Raven]

The use of NAC is great im all for treatments any tool that helps if welcome by me. 

Vaccine passports to travel are put in place by the country you are intending to visit?  This brings me back to the "whole world theory" Unless you believe that the world is being controlled by one hidden government why would all of them use the same course of action. Unless they have worked out it the best thing to do. I mean stopping tourists in certain counties is economic suicide. 

World pulled together was more along the lines of 

1. Rules and restrictions being roughly the same in every country not one broke ranks. I guess maybe swede bucked the trend however that was soon corrected https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-admits-coronavirus-strategy-underestimated-strenght-virus-lofven-stefan-2020-12?r=US&IR=T

2. Huge amounts of funding being pumped in for research and ultimately vaccines from ever where. 

Devex tracked COVID-19 funding from Jan. 1, 2020, to June 27, 2020. As of June 27, the funding committed to combating the coronavirus exceeded $21.7 trillion,

Thats a huge response as species.

There was a certain time mostly when the videos of overwhelmed Italian hospitals where being shown or the trucks in NYC when as humans we all put down the differences and pulled to a common goal. 

Hard to think of another time when that has happened

 

[Scooter]

Some politicians with resolve.............wonder how they'll do?

[The Raven]

Those MEPS wont make a slight bit of difference. EU gunna EU thats why we are better off out of it.

I totally disagree with idiot at 39 minutes, just so i understand, he refuses the vaccine fair enough, he refuses to test? Thats not on. "i dont bow i dont knell only in front of god" no mate they just want to make sure your not about to infect people around you some of which may die. He then went on to compare having to test to religious and political persecution.

IMO you need to pick a reasonable hill to die on. No compulsory vax? I think you will find alot of support. Ending all testing, vaccines, and other messures....not so much  

  

 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by The Raven (see edit history)