ste-dub Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Hi folks This has probably been asked 1000 times over but looking for the pros and cons from people with experience and not just opinions. My 1993 1a1 w58 2jzge is currently away getting a windows out repaint. When it comes back I'll be beginning to save for either a na-t kit or a aristo 2jzgte vvti swap(financially the non vvti will be outta reach). I have no plans to change the w58 gearbox as it's only a Sunday car with only 120k kms so 380 to 400bhp will have me happy. I've worked out that both routes will cost roughly the same So all that being said What route would you take and why?? Appreciate your input Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) Personally the VVTI engine would be better route for me as it's OEM to a degree. A well done single setup is going to cost you a lot more in my opinion. The W58 will probably struggle in both circumstances. Most people who have them on BPU have at least 2-3 spares hanging around. Edited February 23, 2020 by Ric (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ste-dub Posted February 23, 2020 Author Share Posted February 23, 2020 I dont want a powerhouse as its not something I want to spend my time working on. If the box did blow I'd look to a r154 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyne Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 PM me Steve I know someone with aristo Vvti engine m3 box and adaptar plate made up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ste-dub Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 PM me Steve I know someone with aristo Vvti engine m3 box and adaptar plate made up. PM sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) NA-t is only worth doing if you are auto. Being manual puts you at risk and changing the transmission makes it not really worth it anymore. I am NA-t, R154. I would kill for a vvti engine. If you've got the choice, take that route. 400hp will always whatever anyone says be cheaper with an NA-t. You'll see many challenging discussions on what parts to use, regarding price range and `quality` based on opinion. But I think I'm one of the few who has done both budget tuning and gone all out on premium parts with another rebuild down the line. THAT SAID, you run more risk, have a higher hassle factor and limit yourself to BIGGER costs if you desire 600hp. The vvti with m3 box on offer, would be a better route mate! Old turbos? Worn seals? Still worth the vvti engine in my opinion. Edited February 24, 2020 by Noz (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbiemercman Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Hi Ste, See my recent thread page 27. Herbie. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?356195-Boost-returned-but-engine-power-presentation-has-changed/page3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ste-dub Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 Hi Ste, See my recent thread page 27. Herbie. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?356195-Boost-returned-but-engine-power-presentation-has-changed/page3 Wow so your saying vvti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbiemercman Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 I am not conversant with the VVTI, but the people who are recommending it have good credability on this Club site. To be honest i was not aware of this VVTI availability to achieve what i was looking for three years ago, i will investigate this now, all be it my car is now very sound, reliable, and very fast, circa 425BHP @ 1.4Bar. total spend to date £6K., all the cost has been added to my "Agreed value" Insurance. Let me know which way you choose to go? Herbie. BEST.PIC.1..JPEG..jpg (730.2 KB) BON.&BUMP. LOUVERS.2019.JPEG..jpg (630.8 KB) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Reviews Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 What's with the RS badge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 What's with the RS badge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbiemercman Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) Hi Adam, I bet you can guess what the RS badge is ! I could PM and tell you, but may be many other members would also like to know, at my expense. I put the badge on 23 years ago when i bought the car new, it was a "Boy Racer" thing at the time. I used to tell the uninitiated that it was a special car done by "Lexus", the "RS Rally Supra" , my life long problem is, they believed it. lol. Anyway i am going to remove it now that you have exposed me and remove the two hairy dice on my rear view mirror as well. I have a AMG Merc. Est car, but that is not a fake. lol. Herbie. Edited February 26, 2020 by herbiemercman (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Reviews Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 It's a MKIV TOYOTA SUPRA, wear that badge with pride! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbiemercman Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 What is the cost of going VVTI? and am i right in thinking it is an engine and full electronics job? Also how does the BHP and Torque compare to a stock TT? Herbie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 The Aristo swap is not without problems......from memory the Aristo has the ECU in the engine bay and so the loom is too short to just use 'as is' Also it's not rear sumped and the rear sumps can be rare/costly. I'm sure there are other differences? NA-T seems to vary in cost but per Noz it can/should be cheaper if you do only want 350-380? Lot's of it depends on your wishes or your DIY skills etc. Gut feel is that a 320 bhp NA-T would feel better/more eager/more of an event to drive, than the silky smooth/quiet/stock like untuned stock boost 320bhp Aristo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 The Aristo swap is not without problems......from memory the Aristo has the ECU in the engine bay and so the loom is too short to just use 'as is' Also it's not rear sumped and the rear sumps can be rare/costly. I'm sure there are other differences? NA-T seems to vary in cost but per Noz it can/should be cheaper if you do only want 350-380? Lot's of it depends on your wishes or your DIY skills etc. Gut feel is that a 320 bhp NA-T would feel better/more eager/more of an event to drive, than the silky smooth/quiet/stock like untuned stock boost 320bhp Aristo? I think the GTE cost is labour through most people not having the ability or equipment. With fitting a turbo. 320hp or 400hp has no difference I can see. As it's the installation and setup of the boost. Some would say a fuel pump or injectors is needed. But I ran with stock GE components at 417 without issues. Both are cheap anyway. The parts list and labour would both be the same for 300 or 400hp for the GE. 450 ideally should use injectors and a pump. If you were doing the work yourself I think a GTE swap would be massively beneficial. Probably same cost on parts but no mapping needed and no hassle factor fitting custom parts. I'd love to see a 58mm NAt. Or even smaller. Spool would be amazing. Stock compression. I considered it at one point but worried I woildnt hit my goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erachter Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 I was looking into the same and have quoted for some prices from reputable shops. aristo 2jz gte swap - parts 5-7k, labour 2k na-t 400-450hp - 7-8k I guess it depends on what are your goals, I think it is cheaper to go NA-T if you are shooting for big power. I you want 400hp GTE swap might make sense, if you want 600+ go for NA-T, you need the turbo kit, pistons, head gasket, arp studs and you are good to go (if you have the stronger pre-vvti rods). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ste-dub Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 I'd already have the sump from current na engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) I was looking into the same and have quoted for some prices from reputable shops. aristo 2jz gte swap - parts 5-7k, labour 2k na-t 400-450hp - 7-8k I guess it depends on what are your goals, I think it is cheaper to go NA-T if you are shooting for big power. I you want 400hp GTE swap might make sense, if you want 600+ go for NA-T, you need the turbo kit, pistons, head gasket, arp studs and you are good to go (if you have the stronger pre-vvti rods). No buddy. The opposite. I have 600 and didnt do pistons. The expensive part for NAt at 600 is resolving a transmission strong enough! Then the intake isnt man enough. There are plenty of other road blocks for an NA to go for power. Always start with a GTE. I didnt because I had most of the bits anyway. Trust me what a ball ache lol.. Anyone owning an NA wanting 600hp and they currently have no turbo needs to save for a TT6 or a single turbo already done. Edited February 26, 2020 by Noz (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Reviews Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Can't you just fit a VVTi head to an NA bottom end and wire it up to a standalone ECU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC93 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Can't you just fit a VVTi head to an NA bottom end and wire it up to a standalone ECU? Yep, that's what I'm in the middle of doing, NA-T VVTi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbiemercman Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Great, the Irishman has got this ball rolling, well done. I am so glad i have my NAT, it has all the best bits now and the driving is awsom and thanks to Noz who helped me a lot, i just need to take my RS badge off the front of the car now. lol. Herbie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbiemercman Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Hi Scooter what is Aristo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Reviews Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Great, the Irishman has got this ball rolling, well done. I am so glad i have my NAT, it has all the best bits now and the driving is awsom and thanks to Noz who helped me a lot, i just need to take my RS badge off the front of the car now. lol. Herbie. I think you'll find that once that badge is removed, your driving dynamics will improve even further! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Reviews Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Hi Scooter what is Aristo? Toyota/Lexus Aristo is a saloon car with the VVTi 2JZ-GTE engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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