herbiemercman Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) Hi Dudes, Hope you like my title's metaphor, many of you could have guessed the answer. Yes we all love our gas guzzling cars, BUT the powers that be are giving us a finish date. Depending on how old you are, this sort of situation throws cold water on your pride and joy. I find it hard to believe that thousands of fantastic cars like many of us have will be put to the sword. But think of the joy we will have of traveling from London to Birmingham on HS2 taking 20 minutes less than it used to take on the current trains, all be it, if you then took public transport, or a taxi, to say Bolton, it would take 3 hours due to massive road congestion. Yes it is a load of bollocks, lots of big bucks being spent on just a few people. Just think of what it would be like to spend 50 billion, just half of the HS2 cost on improving the roads and the potholes, and restoring the north's railway system. I digress, but am i being a sad bastard or could our "Agreed Values" and the yearly increase in the values of our cars be coming to an end? Because the really wealthy who own vintage gem cars have the right contacts, then we may be able to establish a papal dispensation for or cars, based on us proving that our carbon foot print is very low. Not sure what you lot think, but can we see the possibility of us keeping our cars with agreed usage conditions? Herbie. Edited February 18, 2020 by herbiemercman (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 I don't see an issue for those of us 'of an age' I think the changes will just mean a gradual diminishing ICE cars as most are crashed, scrapped etc as now but they'll be no replacements and it'll just shift to EV's. I think tolls of some type might be inevitable, EV's get all the tax incentives now and are cheap because electrics cheap, but loss of fuel duty over time will need to be replaced and hammering ICE simply won't bring in enough, the EV users will have to be taxed somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Reviews Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 What finish date? No one has said anything about taking our cars away. The government has only proposed a ban on petrol and diesel car sales in 2035. This clearly does not extend to cars that are already on the road before then. In any event, personally, I doubt this will actually materialise. Rather, this is likely a tactic to keep the eco-warriors quiet. I highly doubt the government will genuinely commit to banning the sale of all internal combustion vehicles without having the guarantee of a viable alternative. Currently, battery technology is simply inadequate, especially, when you think of large articulated lorries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supra-love Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 What will happen to old petrol and diesel cars? There is currently no UK-wide scrappage scheme in place for petrol and diesel cars and it is unclear if the government is considering this. In London, the city's Mayor, Sadiq Khan, announced a £25m scrappage scheme to take older polluting cars and motorbikes off its streets, to reduce CO2 pollution. You will still be able to buy a second-hand petrol or diesel car in 2035 and drive one you currently own. There could even be a boom in petrol or diesel sales in 2034, as motorists prepare to buy combustion engines for the final time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Reviews Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Driving an internal combustion engine vehicle will become a luxury that only a privileged few will be able to indulge in. To date, there are no plans to ban petrol and diesel cars from our roads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supra-love Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Driving an internal combustion engine vehicle will become a luxury that only a privileged few will be able to indulge in. To date, there are no plans to ban petrol and diesel cars from our roads. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tayr Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Welp, better stockpile some cars then.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I'm not sure it'll be the privileged few, well not for a long time unless there are punitive taxes imposed as come the change and for years after it'll be the poorer in society clinging to cheap ICE cars? Unless we do start getting cheap EV's filtering down over the next decade or so, it's unclear to me what the EV used market will be like in the long term. You have the potential for obsolescence in old EV's as the tech moves so quickly. At present a 20 year old Yaris does the same job as a brand new one, will a 2016 i3 even be able to have a replacement battery in 2030 if the owner at the time could afford one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
and1c Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I think that petrol stations may start at closing at a tipping point or start repurposing as mass charging stations. Could petrol prices increase as electric cars grow in number.. I wonder what the gov will do about shortfall in tax from fuel sales over the years too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Reviews Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 As you alluded to earlier, if no one had ICE vehicles and the government continued to incentivise EVs with TAX breaks, where will they get their money? I just don't think the government's purse can afford to take that sort of hit. So either, or a combination of, the following two things will happen; the government will slowly start introducing taxes on EVs and/or increase the taxes on ICE vehicles. The latter being the more "eco friendly" of the two and will likely be the government's short term go-to solution. This will inevitably have the effect of pushing ICE vehicles outside the budgets of some people and set the butterfly effect in motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Reviews Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Could petrol prices increase as electric cars grow in number.. If there is no demand, I think the price is likely to fall, if anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) Where will they find the lost billions in tax they get from Diesel and Petrol sales ? Doubt i'll be around to be bothered by it all and glad i've had all manner of great sounding cars and motorbikes Edited February 19, 2020 by Dnk (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbiemercman Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 I think a road toll system or at least a toll on m/ways, also if they taxed mileage, that would be a fair way of doing it, the high mileage owners would pay more and they are the ones who ware out the roads etc. Us lot, or most of us, i assume, would be better off than we are now, make less carbon and pay less, it would be fair. Adam, What is the "butterfly" effect? Herbie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I guess it would be done via your car being chipped and using gps some great central computer will know where you are how far you've been how fast your going etc etc Glad i was born in the 60's to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Reviews Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Taken from wikipedia: "The butterfly effect is an idea that is more commonly used in chaos theory. It shows that a small change can make much bigger changes happen; that one small incident can have a big impact in the future. (...) The term butterfly effect comes from an analogy where a butterfly flaps its wings in Chicago and a tornado occurs in Tokyo". Some fun times ahead of us that's for sure. But what is one to expect from a nanny state? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 If the sea dried up. People would still own boats. My neighbour has one in his garden LOL. Some people just enjoy sitting on a boat. There will continue to be a market for a range of combustion cars for quite some time after a total ban globally kicks in. Up until fuel is unaffordable. You'll see them on the road. After which they will just be collectables. But even then. Youd still them retrofitted with bio fuels of some nature. Due to the combustion process itself being desirable it's unlikely the following would convert to electric. Some would I'm sure. Due to the sheer following that alone would make it difficult to remove it completely within all our lifetime. Others are right though the pure buying and investment force of the oil industry staggers to believe any government would invest in electronic roads. Cant see that being a vision until the oil industry could be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffsplace Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Lets not forget that petrol and diesel are not the only products that are made from a barrel of oil that comes out of the ground, any thoughts about the gas that comes out too, back to electric cooking and heating?. These multinational giants will still want to sell this stuff as part of their portfolio of chemicals, plastics etc. I am all for a pure and clean world, but i do live in the real world where the practicalities of living purely on green electricity for an ever growing population demanding more and more power for their electric gadgets, is more mind boggling than my 3l straight six powered brain can cope with. Its not going to be long before the electric cars are taxed just the same, its simply unsustainable from a revenue point of view for the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlton Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Petrol will still be produced for the rest of the world so it will still be available somewhere, albeit more expensive. If my Supra survives another 15/20 years and converting to electric becomes a viable option I will strongly consider it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Their will be petrol cars rolling around for decades to come. look at Cuba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaijin Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Revenue from fuel tax is £28 billion:revenue from Road tax is £1 billion The government has often said that fuel tax funds the NHS What will fill that particularly large hole if there is no petrol or diesel ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formatzero Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 There is no way a carbon neutral figure can be achieved by 2050 if all used petrol and diesel cars are left on the road,so to me this plan of banning sales by 2035 or earlier of new vehicles is flawed.I have read suggestions have been made for a 7p a mile charge to cover duty lost.They are also talking of removing the electric car grant which will not encourage sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 There is just too many people on this planet, alot of driving is not needed driving kids to school should be a walk or a bus. Anything under 5 minute drive should be a walk in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbiemercman Posted February 20, 2020 Author Share Posted February 20, 2020 The UK are just "Playing to the world's gallery", we started the carbon revolution so we are trying to set the protocol for the future. Our best efforts are a joke if you look at the comparison of China and the USA, a metaphoric example would be consider that our planet is an oil tanker sinking as it has holes in it below the water line, the UK hole is one inch in diameter, the China hole is two foot diameter and the USA is three foot, so blanking off our hole would be a joke. Herbie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 The planet needs everyone to do their bit, but sadly man is too greedy and is the inventor of his own downfall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 The planet needs everyone to do their bit, but sadly man is too greedy and is the inventor of his own downfall Capitalism is based on greed, or if not quite greed then growth and consumption! so it's two things pulling in different directions at least at present. The green way is not currently the most cost effective and therefore if you take the lead others will probably take some of your market share. It's a global version of supporting your local baker/butcher etc over going to Tesco local......and we know how this tends to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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