UK Market Vs Everywhere Else

[Frank Bullitt]

Apologies if I didn't make it clear, I was referring to the entire model range so all the Supras and all the R34s, as both marques have experienced a rise in value. The GTR and the TT6 for the R34 and Supra, respectively, being the flagship models that have seen the largest hike of course.

 

Makes sense to me now

[tayr]

Someone asked me the other week what i'd sell my car for. Call me crazy but I genuinely wouldn't part with it for 100k - because i know the chances are i can't replace it like for like.

 

Maybe a 488 Pista would persuade me, but it would never have the character a Supra does

[Mo Reviews]

Someone asked me the other week what i'd sell my car for. Call me crazy but I genuinely wouldn't part with it for 100k - because i know the chances are i can't replace it like for like.

 

Maybe a 488 Pista would persuade me, but it would never have the character a Supra does

 

How about the J29?

[Frank Bullitt]

Someone asked me the other week what i'd sell my car for. Call me crazy but I genuinely wouldn't part with it for 100k - because i know the chances are i can't replace it like for like.

 

I think that is the boat most of us are in. The jump seems too much of a risk and once you are out of ownership finding a car as clean will be nigh on impossible to find.

[Noz]

I think that is the boat most of us are in. The jump seems too much of a risk and once you are out of ownership finding a car as clean will be nigh on impossible to find.

 

100k would be a tough one to swallow for sure.

[Mo Reviews]

Again, in the wise words of Mr Buffet "Only buy something that you’d be perfectly happy to hold if the market shut down for 10 years". I certainly wouldn't mind keeping my Supras for 10 years, especially considering the direction cars are heading in, that's for sure...

[Frank Bullitt]

100k would be a tough one to swallow for sure.

 

I guess it would allow one to find a real mint example but when you build the car yourself, as you know, there is a lot more of a connection. All that blood spilt, all those cuts, the swearing it all builds a bond. Which is a ridiculous thing to say as cars are supposed to be an inanimate object but the connection seems to run deep.

[Mo Reviews]

Which is a ridiculous thing to say as cars are supposed to be an inanimate object but the connection seems to run deep.

 

100000000000000000% and it's that same connection which is lacking in all the modern cars.

[Stephen88]

Even over in Japan Stock unmodifed examples of TT6 are a rare sight, there quite a few clean modified examples there they are upwards of 4 million yen TT6 man. So about 35k to 40k by the time it gets here.

[Stephen88]

Sounds like I live in the wrong country then!

 

Don't be disheartened, this uncertainty and slight toxicity towards these cars becoming appreciating classics can be quite torrid to navigate. Rest assured though, as with any market, after all the dust settles, the market will do what the market wants to do and, for the record, I don't think you made the 'wrong' choice here. According to some high profile importers in the UK, their biggest customer base appears to be coming from Europe.

 

 

Yea I think made the right choice and I am happy with it ... not looking to sell....

[Stephen88]

Thats really good, if the rust was where the top of the bootlid meets the back of the roof (in that groove) then mine had it too, very light surface rust. Had that part professionally removed,treated and resprayed at my cost so it's good that they took care of it for you. I guess it's just one of those areas which is prone to it.

 

Yea is fair and a fairly a good job has been done on it to treat the rust, I have just found that I have some boost leak...Next thing to get sorted.

[Scooter]

What I genuinely find truly fascinating is how some people think it is perfectly acceptable for R34s to go from £25k to £100k (a 300% gain) but when Supras go from £10k to £25k (a 150% gain) the same individuals are not so understanding?

 

I don't see these conversations on the GTR forum? Perhaps they are just better at appreciating appreciation? Pun intended.

 

I also don't quite understand why some of us appear to be so anti-appreciation when most of the members on this forum own at least one of these cars, and it is our own interest for our assets to be appreciating rather than depreciating, unless I am missing something here??

 

Notwithstanding, I have no doubt that when these same individuals decide to sell, they themselves will pitch their cars at market value, rather than what they 'think' they are worth.

 

Personally I think the GTR thing is crazy too but I've not really looked at it and the R34 was always the preserve of the richer guys back in the 2000's they never got 'cheap' like the Supra's. The NSX always held their prices, mid engine NA and the Senna connection helping?

 

I have done ok out of the appreciation as I have sold one of mine, but now having one and intending to keep it the price rises make that hassle (mainly) and more expensive (not so much just yet) than it was looking 4-5 years ago. For loads of people on here historically running costs were an issue, there are some wealthy owners on here, always have been, but lots of us were enjoying Porsche performance on a hot hatch budget.

 

I think those spending the £30K have at least so far obtained good/great examples, I don't see a issue here as they are likely to have a hassle free car and can keep it very clean protecting its value. Some of the £25K+ cars now joining the band wagon I don't think you could spend £10K and them be as good so a potential false economy? It used to be that you could pluck a bargain in the lower price ranges but now I think it's almost wise to go with a real clean one even if it's expensive. I mean a £15k TT auto with some hidden rust, dull paint, 120K miles and tired suspension, is going to swallow some serious cash to get it up to even looking like the fresh import £30K ones?

 

That said, living through the whole 20 years era I personally cannot 'reset' my (accountant/frugal) brain, I would find it harder (perhaps impossible) to justify the new prices if I was sat here without a Supra, despite the almost certainty that if you do pay the higher prices these days you'll not lose and potentially gain money! (all provided you get a good one) when in the past £8K would turn into £6K etc etc and you'd lose money!

[Mo Reviews]

What gave the GTR and the NSX that reputation? It certainly wasn't due to members of their respective owners clubs consistently shooting down the for sale ads, that's for sure!

[Scooter]

Like you say though the market is the market, I don't ever remember us talking down the prices in the early days they just were cheaper from Japan than the NSX or R34. The R34 basically came around as the Supra was phased out and was a lot more expensive when new too I think? The NSX had the more sports car look and drive, no GT practicalities, a more 'pure' car. The car I sold recently was imported into the UK in 2006 and sold by an importer to the first UK owner for sub £7K so auction in Japan, shipping taxes and profit added to that makes it peanuts in Japan, I doubt the Japanese were talking it down it was just suffering the way a normal used car does in that owners flock to something new and 'better'.

 

The Supra's trump card was more in it's build/longevity/tuning capability/toughness that is massively beneficial as it's aged.

 

I think 20-30 of us on a semi tumbleweed forum that are surprised/incredulous of the prices will not stop the market from evolving, just as it didn't cause it to rise when we'd perpetually saying what great/reliable/fast cars they were through the 2000's!

[Mo Reviews]

Like you say though the market is the market, I don't ever remember us talking down the prices in the early days they just were cheaper from Japan than the NSX or R34. The R34 basically came around as the Supra was phased out and was a lot more expensive when new too I think? The NSX had the more sports car look and drive, no GT practicalities, a more 'pure' car. The car I sold recently was imported into the UK in 2006 and sold by an importer to the first UK owner for sub £7K so auction in Japan, shipping taxes and profit added to that makes it peanuts in Japan, I doubt the Japanese were talking it down it was just suffering the way a normal used car does in that owners flock to something new and 'better'.

 

The Supra's trump card was more in it's build/longevity/tuning capability/toughness that is massively beneficial as it's aged.

 

I think 20-30 of us on a semi tumbleweed forum that are surprised/incredulous of the prices will not stop the market from evolving, just as it didn't cause it to rise when we'd perpetually saying what great/reliable/fast cars they were through the 2000's!

 

The thing is though, in my eyes, the R34 GTR is not a spectacularly special car, there's nothing that significantly sets it apart from its previous iterations. Some would say, it's little more than a poor man's Porsche. I don't like its design and its engine and drive train is inferior to the 2JZ and its drive train. So although I am not placed to argue its value, I cannot justify the disparity between it and the Supra.

 

Whilst you are correct in saying that 20-30 members though, perhaps more notably, owners, publicly criticising the hike in value, of an asset that they themselves own, will not hurt the market in the long run. This however, will affect the market in the short term by serving to cause hesitation and uncertainty.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Mo Reviews
Grammar! (see edit history)

[Swampy442]

If what you say is true, how will the real world view of a few owners hurt the market?

 

Also, the same rules that apply to the top price Supra's also apply to the R34 GTR, R32, NSX (to a lesser extent) even E36 M3s and E39 M5s. Only the very cream of the crop, top spec/standard cars will ever get to the lofty heights of premium pricing. I single out the NSX because hardly any get ruined (modified) by people throwing Rota wheels, XS Power mods, budget tyres etc at them, the rest certainly do. 90% of the cars in the UK market right now are just not up to the standard of the prices they try and command. That is a fact.

[Mo Reviews]

When owners of an asset are publicly observed voicing disapproval over the appreciation of their own assets, how do you think that would make an outsider feel, perhaps a first time buyer?

 

I'm by no stretch of the imagination stating that all cars will be worth top money. That is never the case with such tangible assets. As although they may have all been created equal, it is likely that no two are still identical. What I am stating is however, the bottom line is also creeping up.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Mo Reviews (see edit history)

[Scooter]

I think perhaps a long term owner has never considered the market as such, as most bought pre the rises and then expected some depreciation and perhaps a floor of x thousand pounds.

 

To go back to the op's post, geographically we are close to countries that all have lhd and lots of compliance issues re mods etc. So it's not simplistic to import our cars and they're the wrong hand drive. In the states the high prices perhaps mean the fresh imports from Japan make the best deal, they are setup to export, I don't think anyone here is specifically to do jap imports to the US?

 

I put my car up 6 months ago on Supraforums for circa $20k which is NA shed money but no sniffs (had an enquiry last week as I'd forgot to put it was sold) so definitely active.

[Marty]

The thing is though, in my eyes, the R34 GTR is not a spectacularly special car, there's nothing that significantly sets it apart from its previous iterations. Some would say, it's little more than a poor man's Porsche. I don't like its design and its engine and drive train is inferior to the 2JZ and its drive train. So although I am not placed to argue its value, I cannot justify the disparity between it and the Supra.

 

Whilst you are correct in saying that 20-30 members though, perhaps more notably, owners, publicly criticising the hike in value, of an asset that they themselves own, will not hurt the market in the long run. This however, will affect the market in the short term by serving to cause hesitation and uncertainty.

 

The USA is the difference i'd say. They never had access to skylines straight off the production line like they did the supra. The liners are now at the age where they are importable to the US, so they are being gobbled up by them, the prices reflect that.

[SPG]

5 years from now you’ll struggle to find a average TT6’s for £30k.

[blythmrk]

Some very valid points here.

I am one of the long term Mkiv owners (18yrs with the same car!)

Personally I believe the market is small in the U.K. so more buyers in Europe especially as mine are U.K. spec. making them easy to register in certain countries. As a few have stated most people would buy a newer car with their money (I certainly wouldn’t buy a Mkiv as a daily) They are now classic cars (27 years old) so if you really want one as a buyer you will have to pay the price.

I can foresee the U.K. values keeping inline with Japan possibly with us sending cars/parts back there if they remain cheaper here!

[mplavery]

What are people thoughts on future prices for classic cars like ours with the direction the government want to go with electric cars etc.

 

Will old classics start to drop with electric cars, will the banning of diesel cars in some town centres already soon effect large engine petrol cars in towns

 

I have a mate who lives in Richmond who has a 7ltr cobra and is worried what the future hold for him and the car.. especially as it’s a kit car

[Frank Bullitt]

Tax, tax and more tax. Plus exorbitant fuel prices. I would imagine petrol powered cars will become the privilege of the very wealthy.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Frank Bullitt (see edit history)

[Scooter]

What are people thoughts on future prices for classic cars like ours with the direction the government want to go with electric cars etc.

 

Will old classics start to drop with electric cars, will the banning of diesel cars in some town centres already soon effect large engine petrol cars in towns

 

I have a mate who lives in Richmond who has a 7ltr cobra and is worried what the future hold for him and the car.. especially as it’s a kit car

 

I think it'll be ok tax wise, but the access thing seems to be spreading with ULEZ and other city centre schemes? Long term they need public opinion to swing to the ICE cars being antisocial, whereas now they liked and seen as desirable/fashionable items.

 

When the EV owners proportion grows we will get a better idea of the fate of ICE cars in general, taxation from fuel and duty is going to have to come from somewhere and if they hammer ICE to hard too early then they risk a quicker switch to EV's and then the tax take will plummet and they will have to 'punish' the EV owners somehow? It's going to be a delicate balancing act........to transition to almost full EV ownership, whilst retaining the current duty/tax take and avoiding pissing off too many owners!!

[Johnm400]

Perhaps there are still too many available here? I know they are rare but are they as rare as they need to be for the prices to really shoot up? I dont think they are as at any point you can usually find a few for sale and sometimes theres a decent choice of them. It doesnt help when you have the guy on ebay selling dogs for 6K, it holds the prices of the good clean cars back.