UK Market Vs Everywhere Else

[Westy]

Thought that has crossed my mind for quite some time now is why the UK market is so weak compared to other regions. Prices of cars and parts in Japan and USA are far beyond what they are here....to the point that importing a vehicle or part now realistically means taking a financial loss!?

 

How can it be that we are so far detached!?

 

It's seems to me that the UK market is living in the past when na auto Supras could be had for £1500 and parts were accessible!? Despite the climb in value of the vehicles parts sales here seem to equate to low ball offers and time wasters!?

 

What are people's thoughts on this!? What have I missed!?

[Supra-love]

Thought that has crossed my mind for quite some time now is why the UK market is so weak compared to other regions. Prices of cars and parts in Japan and USA are far beyond what they are here....to the point that importing a vehicle or part now realistically means taking a financial loss!?

 

How can it be that we are so far detached!?

 

It's seems to me that the UK market is living in the past when na auto Supras could be had for £1500 and parts were accessible!? Despite the climb in value of the vehicles parts sales here seem to equate to low ball offers and time wasters!?

 

What are people's thoughts on this!? What have I missed!?

 

I’ve been thinking the same thing for ages also mate.

 

Your not alone I’m with you completely.

 

I have no idea why we are still living in the past with the values.

 

Maybe it’s due to impatience when selling in the uk etc.

 

I think we should all start valuing this era of the MKIV a lot lot more! Make people realise these are not cheap cars anymore.

[nolizma]

Generally I find the UK used car market weird. Its too cheap compared to most other markets. I can't really comprehend how people can afford to buy new cars and suffer such great loss from depreciation. But really can't complain for that. It's the poor car enthusiast's heaven.

 

Regarding supra prices.. Most of the cars are imported, so in the past it seemed that the market was aligned with the Japanese one. Now importing could be a lot more expensive compared to buying second hand here.

I see on YouTube videos in the US, with people paying 20k or more for burned supras that they are planning to restore. They look like scrap metal!!

Here on this forum we, the owners, are talking crap on for sale threads when someone puts their car up for sale for over 20k and its not immaculate.

 

 

[Swampy442]

Because people cant/wont pay for them. rather get the latest Audi or BMW on finance

[Chris Bailey]

Other things also come as a priority... mortgage, kids, bills etc etc etc... I doubt many people are in a position to be buying car parts when other things come before.

[Westy]

Other things also come as a priority... mortgage, kids, bills etc etc etc... I doubt many people are in a position to be buying car parts when other things come before.

 

So people in Japan and USA etc don't have any of those things!? Everyone the world over has bills....it's doesn't change the fact that prices here are drastically lower than the rest of the world.

 

Is the cost of living here that much more!? I very much doubt so

[Mo Reviews]

[drift_bear]

It’s exactly what swampy said, people would rather finance a new car than spunk a load of cash on a 25 year old jap car! Ive said from the beginning of the price hike (thanks to the us), the uk will NEVER see the types of prices that other countries do, especially compared to the American market values!

 

All these supras that are for sale for £20k £25k £30k, have they actually got their asking prices or are they taking below their prices? At the end of the day these cars are worth what someone is willing to pay....

 

Why would you pay £30k+ for a 25 year old car when you can pick up a 10year or younger GTR for around the same price? Or even look at bmw and Audi’s...a V10 RS6 can be bad for the same price as some of these TT6/Single 6 speed supras, I know what I would rather have and it wouldn’t be a supra I’m afraid!

[Mo Reviews]

With finance, you never really own the car. I prefer to own my own assets. Which begs the question; why spend £100k+ on a depreciating asset, which is in my opinion the amount you would need to spend to get the same sort of thrill? So take it from someone who has made that mistake one too many times, once the novelty wears off and the 'new car smell' rubs off, it promptly turns in to a horrific bottomless money pit of nonsensical and wasteful depreciation. Because let's face it, if you buy a new car, with the exception of certain exotics, that's exactly what you're getting. So if you think selling a Supra for £30k is hard, I can categorically tell you, it does not get any easier selling a used RS7 for circa £70k!

 

The fact of the matter is very simple, supply and demand is a universal phenomenon. it does not only apply to the US, Japan and Europe. Further, as others have said, I don't see how or why the living expenses argument would only apply to people living in the UK. So what is really causing this depression in our market? One word; uncertainty.

 

Sadly, this may come as a rather bitter pill for some to swallow, with the way prices are heading, these very same people have been effectively 'gentrified' and can no longer afford to buy one. As I have said previously on another thread, if people in the UK are not going to be willing to dig deeper in to their pockets, these cars, amongst other Japanese motors recently on the rise, will become scarcer and scarcer as they are bought by willing punters from abroad, until such time that we may have to eventually add an apostrophe to the word "owners" in the forum's name.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Mo Reviews (see edit history)

[The Raven]

Ok i will start.

 

Na/ to TT aero.........for sale 30k.

[Style]

Most people, especially Adam, pretty much echo my thoughts on this. But I'll add in a few extras I've noticed as well.

 

An observation that I've made and am almost too afraid to point out (because it's a bit of a stretch, and I don't know the extent of peoples situation) is that generally, we don't seem to have the disposable income of other countries. Maybe it's the way the tax system works in the US where most people get large returns in one lump sum every year which they can then splash on a racecar/tasty parts or our ecomony is out of joint (cost of living / house prices / interest rates vs. wages) compared to everyone else. It wouldn't surprise me if it was and we are all completely unaware.

 

But one way or another, I've seen people on social media and streaming sites with what looks to be fairly basic, high school level jobs comfortably living with a enough left over to plough into drastic mods on their MK4 or similarly priced vehicles. Even looking at 1320 video for example where you see local garages rock up to 1/4 mile events with a 7 second GTR packed into a 40ft Freightliner which is armed to the teeth with all the latest gear and tech. It doesn't make sense to me but like I said, there's a lot more than meets the eye and maybe these guys bust their ass to get to where they are.

 

Also, let's not forget we're just a tiny little country compared to most other places. People in a position to spend the money are fewer and further between which equates to basic supply and demand

[tayr]

people said the same about cosworths...

 

Why pay 30k for an old Ford (5 years ago) when you can buy a 10 year old gtr?? Tell that to the people buying them in dog condition now for 70k+

[Ric]

It's probably because theres always a select few people on all groups on FB, Here and any other forum which shout bloody mary as soon as somebody posts a car/part at current market prices. (How you get these prices m8? OMGz price etc.) And the time old tradition of JESUS you changed a wheel bolt once, it's not OEM anymore 10k less.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Ric (see edit history)

[rider]

It is rarely equitable to compare the sticker prices around the World as there are often other, non advertised costs involved. Taking the USA as an example I was surprised when I lived there that there were transaction (sales) tax to pay when I bought a second hand car. It was actually two cars, one for for me and one for the wife. I didn't know about the sales tax part until I went to pay for the cars and that 9% premium on two cars was one of those, really are you kidding me moments. If a car is sold 10 times in most US States then it generates taxes 10 times. Taxes do distort the second hand market. It isn't just with cars it is anything in life that generates taxation for the government. You have progressives in this country often mention that Ireland has a higher minimum wage than the UK so we are by inference both inferior and regressive but they always fail to mention Ireland has no income tax allowances so they pay tax on every penny earned. Taxes have a big role to play in market conditions, including prices. Probably more so than prevailing currency exchange rates.

[Mo Reviews]

As tayr rightfully pointed out, the exact same thing happened with the Ford Cosworth!! I remember, my father had one which was involved in the most minor accident (rear-ended with a resulting cracked bumper and taillight). The other driver was uninsured, so instead of repairing the car, my father decided to scrap it and buy a new car... guess who's ruing that decision some 20 years later? The thing is though, most people in his position done exactly the same thing. Another example is, people who missed out on £10k houses in the 70s and 80s... look at house prices now. I know it's a balloon but hey, people have made millions and billions riding the wave.

[Mo Reviews]

It's probably because theres always a select few people on all groups on FB, Here and any other forum which shout bloody mary as soon as somebody posts a car/part at current market prices. (How you get these prices m8? OMGz price etc.) And the time old tradition of JESUS you changed a wheel bolt once, it's not OEM anymore 10k less.

 

This. I think we should have an unwritten rule not to shoot down or scrutinise the pricing on car ads, as a matter of courtesy before anything else. Not so sure about parts though, as we should endeavour to help other members out where we can, at least it should be like that on the forum. On any other platform, it would obviously be a different story.

 

To add to my previous post, the new car my father elected to buy was a Audi A6 saloon, which can now be had for sub £2k, whilst on the other had, the Cosworth is now worth in excess of £70k!

Edited February 4, 2020 by Mo Reviews
Addendum (see edit history)

[Frank Bullitt]

The UK market isn’t weak and our prices are inline with the Aussies so it's not like we are loosing out. It boils down to the old RHD versus LHD scenario/debate, with a little supply and demand thrown in for good measure.

 

Being realistic the demand for RHD parts isn't there as the market is oversaturated by comparison, unless of course you are talking about the UK spec. Even then, that market is so small only UK spec owners or our European cousins usually consider paying the absurd prices asked for UK specific parts.

 

If the secondhand market is stagnating and sellers are being left with parts that they can't shift or they aren’t getting the prices they want, then maybe, just maybe, rather than blaming others for lowballing, being cheapskates or time wasters they should reevaluate their pricing structure. I would suggest looking at the constant not the variable but of course that all becomes rather uncomfortable. So much so sellers prefer to point the finger and blame others for their shortcomings.

 

When individuals go around buying up and hording parts when they don't need them in the hope that they increase in value that becomes unadulterated greed and capitalism at its very finest and is about as far removed from what this club used to stand for as possible.

 

So could it be that the lack of increase is due to people getting sick and tired of Supra tax and the inability of other owners to do something decent and right for a fellow enthusiast…

[Mo Reviews]

Japan is RHD yet our prices don't mirror theirs, not even with our UK spec cars!

 

Perhaps if we don't give sellers an excuse to whine by refraining from publicly scrutinising the price tag on their ads, then we wouldn't have this situation?

 

As per my previous post though, I do agree with your general sentiment on the parts piece.

[Frank Bullitt]

I don't think our prices mirror Japan for two reasons. The condition of the parts advertised more often than not surpasses the crap offered up for sale in the UK and their tax system.

 

I also have no problem with people pointing out issues and shortcomings with cars for sale. Especially when new potential owners, who don’t have the wealth of experience or knowledge and don’t always know what an OEM car should or shouldn’t look like when it is for sale at the extreme top end of current asking prices. This clubs ethos has always been about helping others out and stopping them from being bent over and shafted unnecessarily.

 

If people want to profit (more often than not by greed) by selling jap cars and parts and have opted to choose this marque they have made a mistake. Plain and simple. They should have gone with the LHD Supra or R34 instead.

 

As an example I have bought many new OEM parts direct from Amayama and TCB cheaper than people have had offered me used parts for. That should tell you all you need to know. I have also given away more parts than I care to think about and have posted them all at my expense, guess that makes me a mug for not looking to screw others over at every given opportunity.

 

Sorry to say it but exactly the same can be said for most of the cars being listed for sale too and it's f*@king pathetic. Each car for sale needs to be judged on it's own merits. Just because it's a TT6, TT auto or UK spec et cetera doesn't automatically mean it should be listed at X price unless the seller has the primitive intelligence of an amoeba.

 

Any cars or parts advertised for sale at a reasonable price sell and people don't complain, those that aren’t hang around for a long time and with the seller usually given a bit of a reality check now and again.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Frank Bullitt
Spelling. (see edit history)

[Mo Reviews]

That is entirely your opinion; however, one thing I would point out and make absolutely clear is that I only made reference to refraining from "scrutinising the pricetag on [for sale] ads". This courtesy, of course, would not extend to the ad's description or the overall condition of the car. Using that model, the market will be able to react naturally without the influence of a minority. If the market then decides to teach people a lesson or two about diversification, then so be it. I just don't think it's our prerogative to do so.

[Frank Bullitt]

Of course, completely my own opinion which I have absolutely no problem sharing

 

We will have to agree to disagree on the other bit as I feel it is down to us to look out for new members to stop them paying through the nose unnecessarily whilst giving chancers a little reality check!

 

This car being a prime example - https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Du5tp-9DqnkJ:https://www.platinumautos.co.uk/used-toyota-supra-princes-risborough-buckinghamshire-2626117+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Edited February 4, 2020 by Frank Bullitt
Link added. (see edit history)

[mplavery]

Funny enough I looked on Autotrader last night and found 1 TT6 for 28k and 40k which looks like it isn’t a original TT6 ! and an UK TT auto for 50k !!!!

 

So there definitely going up

 

Still crazy I think but maybe that’s because Like a lot of us I paid 13k for mine lol

 

I’ve never owned a car that’s goes up in value and maybe I’m not alone so maybe people feel unsure of putting the actual value of these cars when selling

Edited February 4, 2020 by mplavery (see edit history)

[Mo Reviews]

Of course, completely my own opinion which I have absolutely no problem sharing

 

We will have to agree to disagree on the other bit as I feel it is down to us to look out for new members to stop them paying through the nose unnecessarily whilst giving chancers a little reality check!

 

This car being a prime example - https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Du5tp-9DqnkJ:https://www.platinumautos.co.uk/used-toyota-supra-princes-risborough-buckinghamshire-2626117+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

 

You are of course entitled to your opinion!

 

I think with the value of these cars appreciating, it has left some people behind and in somewhat of a daze, as they cannot seem to fully grasp the concept of an appreciating market. I think I speak for the vast majority of us when I say this; we are not economists or even market experts. So why not let the market do its thing without our uneducated input?

 

If that ad is of a genuine car, I don't think it's grossly overpriced. Maybe a little but not a lot as you seem to suggest. But this is exactly my point, everyone will have a differing opinion but ultimately, assets will only be worth what people are willing to pay for them and currently, in certain jurisdictions, we are talking six figures.

[tayr]

In regards to the "if they sell or what they sell for" comments a few up.

 

I paid over 30 for mine last year for my TT6 and i've spent a few extra £k on maintenance or touch ups, another member paid 38k from Torque and HJA sold a red one for 32k also. That's just the 3 that springs to mind

 

So they are selling

[Westy]

Lots of input and some good food for thought. I definitely do not agree with the ethos that people would rather buy a newer Audi as opposed to a Supra.....if that is genuinely the case it's a sad state of affairs for this club and everyone in it.

 

I turned my nose up at the prospect of an R34 but in my wisdom deemed that priced at circa £25k Vs £15k for a TT6 (2011) I couldn't justify the expense. More fool me with these cars now reaching £100k in some instances.

 

With regards parts I personally have spent years collating a collection of the rarest parts I could find. So are these worthless here!? I don't this it's sellers being unrealistic but more that the buyers just don't like the reality of the cost.....realistically are we saying sellers need to look abroad for buys to get an items true worth!?